I'm working on a customers car... It's a fresh rebuild with less than two hours of run-time. I did not do the rebuild. Apparently there was issues with heavy and repeated flooding after the rebuild--and it was basically running like crap or not running at all. Allegedly the stock ECU cas was running a Walbro 255 and 750cc primary and secondaries--so flooding would not be out of the question.

I received the car and did a nearly entire engine-bay rehaul because it was very poorly put together. However, before I started the car, I checked the oil level. The oil level was VERY high, and was dripping off the dip-stick. The oil smelled strongly of fuel.

Anyways, after getting the car running--it was unable to hold an idle, and would choke out if taken about 2k RPM's. It smoked heavily out the exhaust the entire time I had it running (30 minutes altogether). Not questioning the $3500 engine-rebuild, I went forward and spent several days checking and replacing everything possibly related to fuel-delivery or control. The injectors were put back to stock 550cc's BTW. Everything seemed good--however no matter what was replaced, the TII was still running very, very poorly while continuing to smoke.

I decided to inspect and replace the oil, and I discovered that it was diluted with gasoline to the point of having consistency like Dr. Pepper. This is 20W-50 with less than two hours of run-time... I talked to the mechanic who did the rebuild and he was certain that the early-on, repeat flooding was causing the blow-by. His position was that *of course* diluted oil would squeeze past the oil-seals. My question to him was how gasoline got into the oil in the first place...

Am I dealing with potentially bad oil-control rings, or is it possible that the oil was dilluted due to the heavy and repeat flooding?

He did not list oil-seal inserts on the $3500 receipt, nor did he replace the oil-control rings springs with new ones. He said he had oil-seal inserts "at the shop" that he used in the engine-build, and that he reused the oil-control rings springs.

Imput?

 

If you inject a high enough volume of fuel, or water, or whatever into the engine, it will coat the walls and find its way into the oil system, yes. Fuel dilution can cause the oil level to rise significantly over time, yes. I say put stock primaries back in, change the oil, run it for half an hour, and change the oil again, and then see what happens.

 

I would have changed the oil first then ran some MMO in the chamber. After this replace plugs and go to stock injectors at least in the P without a tuned EMS for the injectors being used.

WOW I cant stand "engine" builders who charge high prices and don't even do it right. Its degrading to all who are fair and proper in there builds.


Hey Kevin were both driving a 04AT rx-8 how do you like yours? I cant stand it to many issues.

 

Too many issues? really. Wow, I must be lucky, especially having an early build 04 AT. Mine is the 3rd highest known mileage on any rx-8 on rx8club at 112.5k, I bought the car from the original owner and it basically has zero issues. It is a little slow to start, but it has never flooded on me, I have even TRIED to flood it. It is the original engine. I run a little premix in it to help it start. It idles a little rough and the motor mounts vibrate. No big deal, though. I drove it through deal's gap yesterday at the rx8 brotherhood of the dragon meet. IT gets about 22-23mpg when babying it on the highway, and about 15 in town shifting manually.

I plan to do something with it...an REW swap, or a 6 port/6 speed swap, or something. I am not sure what, or when. When I get my FC and Denali squared away and making good power, then I will worry about the '8.

 

Yo I am having that same problem right now. Except it is on a 3rd gen. I also have very large injectors. Primary stock and secondary 1600 cc. I stalled the engine to create this problem. Flooded the engine and turned it over 100 million times trying to get it to start not knowing enough about the rx7 and unflooding it etc. Im not entirely sure if this is possible but, I believe that one of my oil injectors is stuck on wide open due to carbon build up, I am going to take both oil injectors out and inspect them tonight. A very consistant large cloud of unburnt fuel/oil is comming out the exhaust. Enough to repel mosquitos : P. And it dies if I dont hold the throttle down a good amount I also cannot get it above 2200 rpm. I did however get it to 3300 rpm yesterday after I took out the main ecu relay and the fuel pump relay and cranked the engine over for about 15 sec. Then replaced them and started it. Its just getting entirely to much oil to try to burn at once. If I get mine fixed ill update you on how I did it. If you get urs working plz do the same.

 

erik, dude,
stock ECU and 750 secondaries. wtf. no wonder it runs like ***. its shooting the same pulsewidth as it would with the stockers. thats like 36% extra fuel... i dunno if you've ever messed with an aftermarket EMS or anything, but if you add 36% extra fuel it will run like *** and completely flood out and die.
i bet if you put the stock primaries back in there it will run fine. do what kevin said.

 

I bought the car brand new from lot in 04 I am getting same millage as you kevin. Have 89k on clock. Idles mad ruff IMO "in gear" vibrates bad in gear and stalls at times on idle like in intersections. Fuel around here sucks knocks alot of times. full AT mode computer shifts hard. Flooded it 3 maybe 4 times in its life. Never when I drive it I always catch it and start the unlfood. Everyone else barrys it with fuel.

 

Haha, I got the car all sorted out.

The car was originally smoking because it had an XS-Power turbo on it with bad oil-seals.

The car was still smoking after replacing the turbo because of previous flooding by owner due to Walbro 255, 4x750cc injectors and the stock ECU. The oil was dilluted to the consistency of Dr. Pepper and was pushing past the control-rings and side-seals into the combustion chambers.

The poor idle was due to many, many things including assorted vac. leaks.

The inability to rev or see load was due to shoddy wiring on a previously installed SAFC-II. The AFM wire was not completing it's circuit fully and was therfore putting the ECU in a constant state of stupidity... Took about a week to figure this nonsense out though. Here's my ridiculously long labor-list taken from an email I sent the owner.

1. ) Check voltage and resistance of fuel-injection
resistor pack. Resistance was bad, so it was
replaced.

2.)Replaced primary injectors twice. 3 total sets of
injectors installed. Incorrect and differing part
numbers on original injectors.

3.) Replaced 750cc secondary injectors with new 680cc
injectors.

4.) Replaced all fuel-injector O-rings and grommets.
Found one damaged, two were not correct thickness.

5.) Replaced fuel-lines with new hose and replaced
clamps.

6.) Replaced primary and secondary fuel-rails.

7.) Installed secondary fuel-rail nut/bolt combo for
better seal.

8.)Checked and cleaned primary and secondary
fuel-injector diffusers.

9.) Replaced fuel pressure regulator.

10.) Replaced fuel pulsation-dampener with block-off
bolt.

11.) Installed previously blocked off fuel-injector
bleeder valve with new vac. line.

12.) Checked voltage on all fuel-injector harness
plugs--within spec.

13.) Replaced water-thermosensor and checked harness
plug voltage.

14.) Checked SAFC wiring.

15.) Removed SAFC.

16.) Replaced aftermarket Walbro 255 fuel-pump with
new Walbro 255.

17.) Replaced second Walbro 255 fuel-pump with stock
Turbo II fuel-pump.

18.) Replaced in-tank fuel-pump assembly and wiring.

19.) Checked and verified under-dash fuel-pump
connection.

20.) Replaced blown turbo with good Series 5, stock
turbo.

21.) Replaced custom exhaust with ThunderFabrications
down-pipe/mid-pipe and Apexi dual N1 cat-back.

22.) Replaced turbo manifold, gaskets, oil-lines and
coolant lines.

23.)Replaced improperly installed turbo-inlet duct
with new 2.5" custom inlet-duct with new couplers and
clamps.

24.) Fabricated and installed new front-mount
intercooler setup with new pipes, couplers, clamps,
blow-off valve location and new. vac. line.

25.) Replaced intercooler setup with stock charge
pipe, couplers, top-mounted intercooler, throttle-body
elbow--with BOV block-off and vac. sealed to eliminate
intake leak variables.

26.) Installed stock throttle-body fuel-atomizer that
was previously uninstalled on both old and new
front-mount intercooler setups.

27.) Replaced gaskets and resealed all block-off
plates. Plates included bypass air-control valve,
air-control valve and split-air pipe. All were sealed
incorrectly with poor gasket material.

28.) Removed, inspected and resealed lower-intake
manifold with new gasket material. Replaced coolant
passage o-rings with new o-rings. Discovered two nuts
untightened during tear-down. Installed correctly to
factory-spec.

29.) Replaced upper-intake manifold, replaced all vac.
caps, replaced throttle-body. Resealed and inspected
multiple times.

30.) Replaced throttle-positioning sensor and set via
factory specs.

31.) Replaced all vaccum lines and replaced vac. caps.

32.) Checked all vac. lines for leaks while running.

33.) Replaced non-turbo Air-flow meter with turbo
Air-flow meter.

34.) Checked air-flow meter wiring. Tested for
voltage.

35.) Removed aftermarket fuel-cut defenser.

36.) Replaced leading-spark coil-pack.

37.) Replaced spark-plug wires numerous times. Three
sets used.

38.) Replaced spark-plugs with new (stock) NGK plugs.

39.) Replaced spark crank-angle sensor.

40.) Reset timing twice using factory spec. method and
timing gun.

41.) Replaced ECU twice. Checked ECU wiring.

42.) Installed fuse-box holder and installed box and
wiring.

43.) Repaired battery wiring.

44.) Installed and fabricated modified battery-tray.

45.) Disassembled, checked and reassembled
oil-metering pump lines and injectors. Replaced all
vac. lines.

46.) Installed crank-case ventilation bleeder-hose

47.) Discovered oil-leak at aftermarket oil-temp.
sensor bung location and fixed.

48.) Changed oil and oil-filter with new 20W-50 oil.
4.3 quarts used. Previous oil had thin consistency
and was heavily saturated with fuel. Retained
oil-sample.

49.) Removed thermostat for temporary safety because of
non-working coolant temp. gauges.

50.) Removed electric 'push-type' fan and replaced
with more efficient stock 'clutch' fan and fan-shroud.

Yeah, it sucked and that's not even the revised list...

 

Yeah BTW (jake and kevin), that was a bit hidden and unclear in my original post. I received the Rx7 with stock 550's already installed.