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-   -   APEX SEAL Guaranteed not to break in your engine (https://www.rx7club.com/rotary-car-performance-77/apex-seal-guaranteed-not-break-your-engine-542370/)

Jimmynguyen 05-21-06 09:03 PM

APEX SEAL Guaranteed not to break in your engine
 
http://www.performancetestedseals.com/ what u guy thinks?

dhahlen 05-21-06 09:08 PM

Ouch, $1000 U.S. for a set of seals for a 2 rotor.

RX7specialties in canada makes seals that they put their guarantee on... stating they will not break. They say the engine internals will give before the seals do.

2Lucky2tha7 05-21-06 09:09 PM

Ummmm, yeah....................
Holy shit!!!! they are f-ing expensive!!!! I could buy a used car for the cost of those apex seals!!! You can count me COMPLETELY OUT!!!

FLA94FD 05-21-06 09:22 PM

They had better work, they cost a boat load. They appear to have a life time guarantee.

I personally want the front fender exhaust, fireball and all that would be great for dealing with those Honda boys.

Jimmynguyen 05-21-06 09:26 PM

thinking about u wont ever need to replace the damn weak oem seal

dhahlen 05-21-06 09:29 PM

Let me see those things last 100k miles on 28psi of boost.

greenjack 05-21-06 09:44 PM


Originally Posted by dhahlen
Let me see those things last 100k miles on 28psi of boost.

Let me see any rotary last 100k miles with 28 pounds of boost.

SiKoPaThX 05-21-06 09:45 PM

Sweet. I'm putting a 200 shot on my car!

GoodfellaFD3S 05-21-06 09:54 PM

For the amount of money i spent on shitty hurley apex seals and rebuilds back in 2001-2002 I could have bought multiple sets of these seals.....

greenjack 05-21-06 09:55 PM

lol^

rynberg 05-21-06 10:34 PM

What good are they if they make the seals out of such a hard material that they chatter at high rpm and rip through housings in short order?

I honestly fail to see what's wrong with OEM seals.

GUITARJUNKIE28 05-21-06 10:52 PM

weren't those like $600 a few months ago?

GUITARJUNKIE28 05-21-06 10:53 PM

my bad, i was thinking about these:

http://www.southcoastrotary.com.au/scrseals.htm

2Lucky2tha7 05-22-06 12:28 AM

I'll just settle for my usual 2-piece RA 2mm apex seals. No need for having such an extravagent set of apex seals unless you're drag racing and pushing the ultimate limit of the 13B. Just my opinion.

Juiceh 05-22-06 12:51 AM


Originally Posted by rynberg
What good are they if they make the seals out of such a hard material that they chatter at high rpm and rip through housings in short order?

I honestly fail to see what's wrong with OEM seals.

In the link in the first post they claim these seals do not damage or wear the housings.

Sounds almost too good to be true. Has anyone tried these? I'm tempted to try them in my next project.

allrotorfd 05-22-06 01:26 AM

http://ausrotary.dntinternet.com/for...ht=pts&start=0

PDF 05-22-06 07:00 PM

There is a very similar seal available from South Coast Rotarys for the same price as stock mazda seals. The only difference between these and PTS seals is the SCR seals don't warp when they get to hot e.g lean out or not enough premix.

GoodfellaFD3S 05-22-06 09:07 PM


Originally Posted by PDF
There is a very similar seal available from South Coast Rotarys for the same price as stock mazda seals. The only difference between these and PTS seals is the SCR seals don't warp when they get to hot e.g lean out or not enough premix.

link? :Wconfused

BDC 05-22-06 09:27 PM

The problem isn't the apex seals.. the problem is the gas.

B

SiKoPaThX 05-22-06 09:34 PM

Geez rich, wanna make your sig a bit bigger?

RICE RACING 05-22-06 09:42 PM


Originally Posted by PDF
There is a very similar seal available from South Coast Rotarys for the same price as stock mazda seals. The only difference between these and PTS seals is the SCR seals don't warp when they get to hot e.g lean out or not enough premix.


They should give a guarantee to have no compression after a small amount of running in "non ideal conditions" :P

I got a phone call this morning from a guy running SCR seals that has little compression after very little work (car wont start hot !), they are too soft and they wear badly. One customer I supplied just got the National untubbed record running 8.29sec @ 161mph and backed it up ! Not bad for a back yard effort with f*ck all runs under the belt :)

^ Will pass on contact details for anyone in doubt of above

When you use a premium product you get results, even if your a nobody, you dont need hype to sell a product, just straight up quality and engineering credability. I always said if your worried about breaking seals and want unbreakable ones you will end up with very soft shitty product.

NRS ceramics all the way, they are so good shops dont wont to tell you about them ;)

PM me and I will sell you them at a reasonable price :)

dhahlen 05-22-06 09:44 PM

No shit captain, wtf?

RICE RACING 05-22-06 09:59 PM


Originally Posted by dhahlen
No shit captain, wtf?


Unbreakable seals dont make the power and they dont give you life, and now they are proven to not give you the same performance as a properly engineered high technology product.

IMO Mazda factory use silicone nitride (ceramics) for a reason because they are the best, NOT because they are idiot proof ! Dont buy a product cause it is stupid resistant ;)

Lots of my biggest customers here have switched from stupid resistant products to quality products. For a majority of you street based guys and even racers there is nothing wrong with the OEM seal, unlike stupid break proof versions they will be durable and make more power than any of you can imagine. If you have money the ONLY logical step up is either Ianetti or NRS ceramics.

Buy what you like, though its good to learn from others mistakes ;) Its free advice :)

dhahlen 05-22-06 10:07 PM

you forgot the 'do'

RICE RACING 05-22-06 10:11 PM

Good analogy I can give you is its a bit like a NITRO RC motor.

Running a Alu piston (no rings!) in a chrome bore, feed it enough oil and cool methanol and it will survive o.k.

Dont run enough oil or get it hot and watch out ! with stupid amounts of oil and rich AFR's (to carry the big amounts of oil needed as its fixed to AFR) + running a heat tollerant fuel like meth lets shit products shine (for a little while).

Run it like a normal engine at near correct tunes (fuel type, AFR, and oil ratio's etc) and watch the comp vanish before your eye's .............. One of my big customers swithed wholesale for just the above reasons.

If you tune for ultimate performance you will get best track results, if your goverened by making your "unbreakable seals" not warp or wear badly your behind already, does not matter if they dont break or if your not making the power you need, or cant start the engine without pouring oil down its throat !

GoodfellaFD3S 05-22-06 10:33 PM

I shrunk it down, you friggin' whiny bitches :D

GUITARJUNKIE28 05-23-06 05:55 AM

i alredy posted a link to the scr seals

GoodfellaFD3S 05-23-06 08:01 AM


Originally Posted by GUITARJUNKIE28
i alredy posted a link to the scr seals

Indeed you did. My bad, y0 :bluesuit:

GUITARJUNKIE28 05-23-06 08:03 PM

some people break ianetti's, some people make atkins work for 40psi...it's all in the tuning.

weaklink 05-23-06 08:53 PM


Originally Posted by GoodfellaFD3S
For the amount of money i spent on shitty hurley apex seals and rebuilds back in 2001-2002 I could have bought multiple sets of these seals.....

that's funny-I hear stuff about hurley's all the time, but I haven't had any trouble out of mine.

GoodfellaFD3S 05-23-06 10:33 PM


Originally Posted by weaklink
that's funny-I hear stuff about hurley's all the time, but I haven't had any trouble out of mine.

That's good news for you and your bank account ;).

How much power/boost are you running? If close to stock levels, that is prolly why you havent had any problems.

crispeed 05-23-06 10:34 PM

[QUOTE=RICE RACING]They should give a guarantee to have no compression after a small amount of running in "non ideal conditions" :P

Now how did I know you couldn't resist this post. :)

Where the hell you been buddy!

NRS ceramics all the way, they are so good shops dont wont to tell you about them! :)

GUITARJUNKIE28 05-24-06 06:56 PM


Originally Posted by weaklink
that's funny-I hear stuff about hurley's all the time, but I haven't had any trouble out of mine.


i hear shit all the time too, but i've torn down a few engines with hurleys. dents on the rotor faces, broken side and corner seals, apex seals intact, and rotor housings showed no signs of abnormal wear. i don't know if they were the "long life" or "racing" seals, though.

chinaman 05-24-06 08:55 PM

NRS ceramics all the way, they are so good shops dont wont to tell you about them! :)[/QUOTE]

If the shops won't tell us about them, why don't you? Do I need to auction off my first born to get a set??

weaklink 05-24-06 10:56 PM


Originally Posted by GoodfellaFD3S
That's good news for you and your bank account ;).

How much power/boost are you running? If close to stock levels, that is prolly why you havent had any problems.

apex rx6 @ 15 psi-steve kahn butt dyno says 360-380 to the wheels. ran it at much higher boost 19-20 psi when it was an auto.

dhahlen 05-24-06 10:57 PM

steve kahn's butt dyno? Is this a new tuning secret? :rlaugh:

GUITARJUNKIE28 05-25-06 01:56 AM

[QUOTE=crispeed]

Originally Posted by RICE RACING

NRS ceramics all the way, they are so good shops dont wont to tell you about them! :)

if you're gonna spend $2k on a set of ceramics, might as well spend $1k on new rotor housings too....oh yea, new seals and springs everywhere, and we certainly don't want old rotors.... and fuck those used irons...etc, etc

$350 stock seals are great. just don't detonate.

so $7-8k later, you've got an engine.

GoodfellaFD3S 05-25-06 07:57 AM


Originally Posted by GUITARJUNKIE28
if you're gonna spend $2k on a set of ceramics, might as well spend $1k on new rotor housings too....oh yea, new seals and springs everywhere, and we certainly don't want old rotors.... and fuck those used irons...etc, etc

$350 stock seals are great. just don't detonate.

so $7-8k later, you've got an engine.

I'm sure you realize you're being silly.

When applicable, I agree with the rotor housing comment. Irons, rotors and eshaft are perfectly fine to reuse if not damaged. New seals and springs are a bit of a default when rebuilding an FD motor.....

Just don't detonate? Shit happens, especially with boosted rotaries. Bad gas, bad tuning, poor correction maps, overboosting, etc etc.

Glassman 05-25-06 09:57 AM


Originally Posted by GUITARJUNKIE28
if you're gonna spend $2k on a set of ceramics, might as well spend $1k on new rotor housings too....oh yea, new seals and springs everywhere, and we certainly don't want old rotors.... and fuck those used irons...etc, etc

$350 stock seals are great. just don't detonate.

so $7-8k later, you've got an engine.

The 1 pc ceramic seals retail at $1195.00 but i'll be happy to take $2K for them.
New seals and springs everywhere??? How else do you build an engine?

GUITARJUNKIE28 05-25-06 03:58 PM


Originally Posted by Glassman
The 1 pc ceramic seals retail at $1195.00 but i'll be happy to take $2K for them.
New seals and springs everywhere??? How else do you build an engine?


sorry, i was going off this:
http://pineappleracing.com/Merchant2...t_Code=3M2PCAS

but everyone's talking shit about the other indestructible seals, but ceramics are ok. ceramics can still break, but you'll probably break your side and corner seals first--which brings us back to the original argument of why use super strong apex seals and stock everything else?

Glassman 05-25-06 05:06 PM

The price on Pineapples site is for 2 pc seals and it includes the hard faced springs.

Why use strong apex seals and stock everything else? Because there really aren't many other options for aftermarket seals other than apex seals and is there really any proof of benefit to aftermarket corner and side seals vs the stockers. I don't know but I can tell you of a failure due partially to aftermarket corner seals not having adequate slot clearance to the apex seal as well as not having adequate corner seal to groove clearance. Combine the two and you've got a problem... stuck corner seals that are impinging the apex seal in two ways.

I will soon be making a prototype set of ceramic corner seals and they will be tested in a drag car. If everything works out there may be another aftermarket seal option.

Sorry to ramble on off topic, I just wanted to correct the price confusion on the ceramic seals.

GUITARJUNKIE28 05-25-06 06:56 PM

my bad on the price confusion. that wasn't really the main point, anyway.

i was thinking more along the lines of why put money into one thing and not another?

Angel Guard Racing Team 06-01-06 02:16 AM

Tunning is a very important factor... We are running on factory Mazda seals right now... Go figure...

yodaddy 06-04-06 12:29 AM

I'm not knocking on the NRS seal at all, they are a truly badass seal. but the difference hear is that PTS offers a GUARANTEE meaning that once you spend all that money, you don't have to worry about it beeing wasted and spending it again. anyway, this thread is about the PTS seals so let's get back on topic shall we.

peachykeenwight 06-04-06 12:38 AM


Originally Posted by GoodfellaFD3S
That's good news for you and your bank account ;).

How much power/boost are you running? If close to stock levels, that is prolly why you havent had any problems.

I'm scared of my Hurleys, haha... only 13psi on 93 octane, but still lots of power... when they break, if the housings aren't damaged (I had a long talk with Steve about how Hurleys wear the housings moreso than other seals.. which surprised me seeing as they're supposed to be really soft), I'll probably just use Mazda seals.

What kind'a Hurleys did you have?

ps: sorry for being off-topic.

Angel Guard Racing Team 06-06-06 12:37 PM


Originally Posted by yodaddy
I'm not knocking on the NRS seal at all, they are a truly badass seal. but the difference hear is that PTS offers a GUARANTEE meaning that once you spend all that money, you don't have to worry about it beeing wasted and spending it again. anyway, this thread is about the PTS seals so let's get back on topic shall we.

I know people that have broken them in their engines but I'm talking extreme horsepower and boost... So they should be very good under other circumstances...

prjct87rx7 06-09-06 01:13 PM

half the money probably goes for that stupid box they come in.


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