Apex seal?
 

Ive just searched the forum for the past hour reading posts on which apex seals are the best with alot of mixed results. I am looking which set I want to use. I am trying to decide weather to use RA Super seals and springs or Atkins. I have a s5 turbo 2. It is streetported , full 3in exhaust, corksport fmic, greddy boost controller, apexi neo and am going with 720cc secondaries. Also has a walbro 255. I plan to run 12lbs daily and occasionally turn it up to 14-15. Its the stock turbo and will be tuned by Steve Kan in March. I also plan to upgrade the turbo later and get a standalone so. I just want something that will take some abuse and last. Thanks

hmmm.... abuse and last....

That to me sounds like 3mm apex seals, anyone second me on that?

I'm going to run the Super Seals.

i'd go with the Super Seals. in fact, i AM going with the Super Seals for my next personal buildup.

Atkins vs Super Seals? thats kind of like apples and oranges now isn't it.

Why haven't you considered OEM seals?

If you have a bunch of money, go ceramic and new housings.

Ive heard that OEM are good for new housings and atkins are good for used.

Fairly accurate. Depends on your budget. :)

Well i am going with pretty much the same setup as the OP. What seals would you use? Are the Rotary Aviation super seals as hard on housings as everyone says? Thanks

I really have no real-world experience with them.. So :dunno: but I would imagine they are WAY overkill on a daily driver engine. If you have a daily driver that needs to see 30+psi of boost.... then maybe you need them.. :) But otherwise, I'd say Atkins seals are fine... expecially if you are going with used housings.

And you have to think a little about how long you are going to keep this engine intact or how long you'll have the entire car for that matter. If you are going to put 100k miles on the car again, then new housings+oem seals is probably the way to go.. they lasted over 100k before, they can do it again.

If you are on a budget build and will end up tearing it open in another year or two.. .atkins seals are dirt cheap, work great, and break into used housings fast and will probably last 100k miles+ anyways.. RA's classic seals are probably a good choice too for that matter, I just have no experience with them. OEM and Atkins for me. :)

I've only built a couple engines. All with Atkins seals actually... my current build I'm doing mazda seals. So.. don't take my word as "guru" advise.

Im a strong believer that 3mm seals are for tuning mistakes :)

Yes.. 3mm = overrated and seal poorly.

I think that Im going to go with either the super seals or oem. The rebuild kit from RA is only like $950 or something like that. Has anyone ever used that one and did it include everything? I want to buy the most complete rebuild kit available but dont want to spend $1500-1600 from racing beat or pineapple racing. Plus racing beat's comes with s5 corner seals and i want solid. Thanks

Ray Crowe 1238 + shipping for every seal and gasket to assembly a shortblock, OEM of course.

From Malloy Mazda correct? Do you know if it would come with 93+ corner seals and springs? #? Thanks

We did an interesting test tonight on Mazda seals and Aviation. One of the techs snapped some mazda seals in half with his fingers. Didnt take much effort to do that. We tried that with Aviation and couldnt budge them, so we put them in our bearing press to see how much pressure it took to crack them. We laid the Mazda seal flat between two blocks and lowered the press down to where it was just touching the seal in the middle. It only took one push on the bar to snap it in half. We then laid the aviaton in the same position. We started compressing it down, and the damn thing wouldnt break, it just bent in half. Kinda a dumb test, but thought it was interesting.

Were these the super seals? classics? Mazda 2 piece? Were both 2mm? were all of these seals new?

I've had great results with the RA 2mm seals in like 4 engines I built. I heard Atkins are too soft. Also, I'm not a big fan of OEM seals because I want stronger ones that resist detonation alot better, and the RA's definitely do. Don't ask how I know ;)
P.S.: in my last engine, the stainless pin from my auxillary sleeve flew into my engine (with 20,000+ miles on the rebuild) and destroyed the rotor, the rotor housing, and the end plate, and the RA seals suffered only minor tiny scratches and were still VERY usable. Proof enough for me when I took it apart and saw everything, because I was CERTAIN that I had to replace the RA seals.......nope.

These were 2mm Classic RA seals and 2mm Mazda 2pc seals. Both of them were used and we did each test probably 5 times.

how are the new ra classic on the housing? Will The motor last 10k without loosing compression?

dumb? i think not. even if i didn't already strongly believe in the RA seals, i think this would have sold me. i cringed when i pictured you guys conducting that test and just murdering 10 seals, though.

rx7vadim, I have 36,000+ miles on my original RA seals from 3 years ago and I have the same compression now as I did after the seals were first broken in and beating on them pretty hard.

10k without losing compression.. thats a fairly unambitious goal. :)

Thats good to hear, premix helps alot too. As long as i get 10 k out of my motor before tear down, thats all i need, thats like 2 years of use sinse its not a daily driver.

I'm using RA seals and have 15k on them. I'm going to do a compression test sometime this week at work. During my rebuild, I reused both of my housings (one of which was badly scratched for the stock seals letting go). I use premix!

The RA seals are overkill for a NA rotary plus I don't see the housings lasting 100k with them.
Stock seals are best for stock hp levels, lightly modified and longevity.
RA are best for abuse in modified well beyond stock levels.
NRS ceramics are the best if you can afford them.

Just make sure you use the stock apex seal springs. The stock ones are heat treated. I'm not sure if RA has upgraded their springs as of yet. Their old springs easily collapsed causing excessive chattering and compression loss.