If a car can kick ass and still retain good driveability that's not good?

You rather spend 20k in mods to have a fast ass car, beat stock to mildly modded high HP cars, and brag? Then tinker with the car to make sure it's still running right?

Damn guess I need to learn more.

A new, decently option Z06, is $100k (not uncluding tax, title, tags, or the higher insurance premiums). A new ZR1 is another $25k over the Z. If you want to buy a new Z, then yes, it will cost significantly less but your Warranty will not be as extensive (another selling point of the Z you mentioned). FWIW, I see nothing wrong with people that have modded their cars smoking a $100k+ car - especially when its ~ 20 yrs newer, the near epitome of GM's performance Vette, and total out of pocket cash still remains much lower....all the while being an equivalent track performing sports car. You do have a good point about Z's being close to bulletproof though - they have had some issues as well but are not as delicate as an FD (even modded properly FD).
Dude, enjoy your Vette - its a nice car! ;o)

Decently option NEW z06 which is the 1LZ is around 78 grand with the top of the line model marking at around 88 grand. Give or take depending on where you live though. BUt i havent seen a 2013 Z go for 100k unless that dealer marked it up big time.

That said, even an 06-07 have the option of the GMPP for IIRC an additional 4 year/40k miles IF the previous owner had the GMPP to begin with. And the new owner could get this extension within 30 days of the expiration and it only cost 50 bucks.

Some people have bought third party warranties like warranty direct. Or if you're an 08 or newer owner you can purchase a vehicle 1 warranty. I think it expires this year or end of 2013, i have to check the forum i'm on. They do have good knowledge over there lol.

The Z's arent really bulletproof. Although the LS7 is a BEAST. I would consider a 2JZ more bulletproof, which is my favorite engine afterall. lol

All im saying which is my point in this thread is why brag about beating a stock to bolt on car when you have tens of thousands invested in yours?? A fast car is a fast car but when you have to spend THAT much just to beat a stock car?? lol

There are many Z guys running high 10s bone stock just with slicks.



lol damn i cant wait to get mine.

When i get a 2 car garage in the future, ill buy an FD again just so i can prove to you guys i still love the rx7/rotary. :)

A few points?
New Cost: R&T lists a decently optioned new Z06 at $101,760. I went to the local dealer today, decently optioned - $100,140.

Used Cost: Let's use your $38k. Its still $38k - $15k a guy spend on the FD mods. This puts the used Z at ~ 200% cost premium for likely a slower car? .....I pulled a Z when I still had stock twins from a highway roll 3 times a few years back. My point, without being an azz, is a properly modded FD will be just as quick or quicker than a stock (even modded) Z - depending on what turbo selection/boost/tuining you select (ie some BB turbos have nearly zero lag so you don't sacrifice low end acceleration). Mine, only as reference, was done for ~ $13k in engine/drivetrain & dyno tuning expenses.....not tens of thousands of dollars as you mentioned.

I would not be using Ranger @ Maryland International Raceway (MIR) as a reference? Ranger is a professional Z06 drag driver with literally, hundereds of runs in C5 & C6 Vettes to extract every last hundredth of a second in the 1/4. MIR is also at 80 ft, entirely a non typical roadway condition that artificially provised faster drag times & traps. You should be using published times as reference since they represent real world conditions with pro/semi pro drivers to extract repeatable numbers that align (or beat) your typical owner.

Regardless of the above points, as you already know, any car can be made to go fast (er) depending on your wallet. It's all what type of car you want & I think its silly for anyone on this or any other forum to hold it against someone for buying another high end sports car? I hope you enjoy your Z in the years to come.

It must be different in cali.

Fully option Z here will only be 90k without taxes, title etc.

I call failure of driver skill if your stock twin FD pulled on a stock Z. Because even with a bad driver, it doesnt take a ton of skill to roll race, and with the Z's long gears, i find it hard to believe. I wouldnt call it the Z's lack of power or your FD being an actual faster car (paper wise), just a really slow shifter the driver was. But ill still believe you beat him. Wont argue that.

Yes ranger is a known guy and AMAZING driver in the Z community, and i used his an example just for that very reason. To bring the very best out of the Z. And high 10s bone stock with slicks is amazing.

Motor trend does go to MIR at times IIRC for their performance number testings. They have to give the consumer the very best number the car will provide given a good driver and good road condition. It only makes sense. Why would they give a road test on public road with the host driving? etc??

Tens of thousands could be interpretted differently. Could be 20k, 30k or even more. You said you spent 13k. Thats still a good chunk for mods ALONE. Thats what i was saying. Yes the FD is cheaper, obviously because its much older. Keyword is older so everything on the car is old.

Now if a bone stock FD can beat a bone stock Z, then yes everything said in this thread is irrelevant because the FD can be had for less than half the price of a used Z but the fact that people have to pour money into mods AND maintenance, JUST to beat a stock Z?

Or you spend 38k for a used Z, even if its bone stock, you're now getting a fresher car, newer (age) and a STOCK 505hp engine, and with good chances of buying an extended warranty.

My stock twin FD was just plain faster than the Z. He picked the fight, lost, and came back 2 more times with the same result ;o) It was close, but the R1 pulled 2 cars on him from ~ 70 - 120 mph 3 times in a row.

My man, you know people mod thier cars to go faster, not to "just beat a stock Z"? My example was just one of many of the victims over the years whom wanted to run my CYM. The latest victim was an F430 Spyder yesterday - he got his azz mauled ;o) My point being that guys have been modding their rides since the Stone Age. Call me a caveman, but I'm a happy caveman.

Anywhooo, take some pics & post your Z when its in your garage. Cheers.

-Matt

Yes your car was def faster than THAT Z. Driver prob messed up his 2-3 shift each time lol.

The f430 I def believe. Its slower than a z by far.

I know people don't modify their fd's just to beat stock Z's, I was commenting on OP's story.

Again all I said was why brag you car beat a stock or bolt on z when your car is heavily modded. That's all.

I've pulled several C6 Z cars on my stock twins - the FD had a better power to weight ratio, lower drag, & FD's pick up ~ 15 rwhp on a roll vs a N/A car that doesn't pick up any discernable power. Stock Z's are mid 11 sec cars trapping mid 120s. As a reference, R&T, F430's have the same 1/4 mile as a Z06 (using the same unbiased published source) but traps 4 mphs slower. So, on a roll, an F430 is a little slower but not much - they are with 22 Hp & the F car enjoys ~ 150 lbs weight advantage....they are, statistically speaking, within a breath of one another. From running against both cars on more than one occassion, I'd confirm R&T's results - they seem extremely close (both gettng pulled but the Z seems just slightly/a bit faster).
page 2 - Rivals! Ferrari F430 vs. Ford GT - Comparison Test - RoadandTrack.com

So your stock twin FD trapped mid 120's?? What was your RWHP?

Thats very impressive for a stock twin FD. I know there were a couple who ran 10s? But even then thats rare.

A Z's gearing is very long, which is why im wondering how you pulled him from 70-120??

Because a race like that, he'd be in 2nd and redline in 3rd before he has to shift to 4th, thats around 120.

An FD would be in 3rd but @ 70mph would be 5500rpm? I cant remember. Was your FD seq or non seq at that time? You were really probably a better driver than him.

Thats why i said only thing i can think of is that Z driver fucked up the 2nd to 3rd shift.

^ Ive personally never seen a stock C6Z trap more than ~120. Which, dont get me wrong is still friggin moving for a stock car, but miles off from the near 130mph that has been posted in the vids such as the one you posted. Not saying that it isnt possible, just from the handful of ones Ive seen run they havent posed even close to the times Ive seen on the internet. Most have been mid-high 11s at 120ish.

I do love the cars though, although I think just because I know what they are capable of moreso than the looks. They look ok, just dont "do it" for me. Im torn between that as my next car or a late 90s Viper GTS. Either way, next vehicle will have a big honkin' engine under the hood :D

i hope you have your z06 by july cause ill be in NY around that time with the car

Me neither, but thats due to the lack of driver skill.

That doesnt mean the car is not capable of it. Most magazines test drivers have trapped the car in the 122-125. BUt you know in drag racing, there are many factors in getting a good time. Im not saying every good driver will mark that time/trap.

Ranger is an extremely good driver and while that 10.7 run was pretty much irrelevant because he had slicks, his intent was to show what good driving and tires can do on a STOCK car.

I thought about getting a late 90s GTS since way back in the day, since after getting my FD. I test drove a 98 and didnt like it. Its hard to get used to do the long nose and the ride is really rough. They dont sound good (compared to other v10's) and just be careful on its maintenance. There is a reason why alot of them for sale are always LOW mileage.

Sounds like you're confusing trap speed and ET. Good driving can certainly lead to a better ET, but how will good driving take a trap speed from 120 to 129? That's a huge difference.

Slow shifting allowing boost to fall off between shifts can make a difference not sure how much i guess it depends on the driver.

Yellow R1 was roll racing these Z's.

A good driver will get a better ET, obviously. Thats why im curious what RWHP his FD was at when he pulled these Z's. Because it does sound like a poor Z driver who probably messed up his 2-3 shift which is why he got pulled. Acceleration in the first 4 years of a Z is incredible. And its gearing helps that alot.

My man, the poor Z driver commentary needs to be shelved? This is not Laguna Seca.....its a straight line - you make 1 gear change.

My R1 made 405 rwhp on stock twins & weighs 2,700 lbs. As highlighted, a stock Z is at a power-to-weight disadvantage, it has a worse Cd, and doesn't pick up any power on a roll. I've pulled many quick cars over the years with the above power (Vipers, Modenas, Vettes, modded Stang Cobras, 997 Turbos, etc). It's just not a big deal - simple roll ons in a lightweight car that has respectable power levels that allow it to dispatch some quick cars. I attached an old pic as an fyi.

405 on stock twins? Jesus...how long did those last for?

Wtf 405rwhp on STOCK twins?? Hmmm sounds fishy. Stock engine, not ported??

I honestly dont believe that hp figure but in this case, i will.

405rwhp in a 2700lbs car vs a 445-455rwhp 3200lbs car, i can see why you pulled him. Because that equation makes sense. Theres no question given the above numbers are actually fact, that you will pull him, even with not so great drivers. This is roll racing afterall.

When i saw you said stock twin FD, i was thinking of a 350rwhp MAX. Because with 350rwhp, that FD would NOT pull a C6Z. But i will give you the benefit of the doubt with 405rwhp.

Btw, R1 FD has a cd of .31 and the base is .29.

C6 vette is .286

The stock twins are still good & in my garage - I swapped them out at 101k miles a few months ago for BNR Stage IIIs that work pretty well (they seem to use more oil though - I may have Brian rebuild them).

Gents, my engine was built by my brother (Chris, aka Mr. RX-7 TT) whom has been building/porting hundreds of motors for the last 28 years as a hobby. He's one of, if not the most, experienced rotary builders in North America....he builds a streetable motor that puts out good numbers.

Qwik, a C6 Z06 has a Cd of .34. It also has a larger frontal area....both of which hurt it on a roll against an FD. 2012 Chevrolet Corvette C6 Z06 specs, performance, photo & data. Anyway, it doesn't matter - its just as silly road pull with a fellow having some grins with nobody around.

....................................FD............ .......................ZO6

frontal area..................19.26 sq ft......................22.3

drag coefficient...............29...................... ..............34

aero drag.................... 5.585............................. 7.582

advantage FD 26.3% less drag



https://www.rx7club.com/single-turbo.../#post10025374

You're right my mistake its .34, i was just looking at the reg C6 cd.

Yes it is silly to drag this discussion, if you won you won, its stupid to keep on with this.

I am just finding it hard to believe that your stock twin FD was 405rwhp lol. But if you said the engine was built, thats prob why.

Also, cd isnt the major factor in roll racing, there are many other factors too. I mean look at a formula 1 car. Not necessarily aerodynamic.

I mean the Z can hit 200mph in stock form, no modifications needed to the body to produce downforce. Same with the FD. Except i think it needs that front splitter. IIRC

Uh, CD makes a big difference in a rolling race. The faster you go the bigger the difference.

In F1 all the cars have close to the same CD, HP etc. that's why they are so close.

Ahem, Cd & frontal area play a HUGE role the faster you go. Physics class has commenced. ;o)

Horsepower Required goes up as the CUBE of the increase in speed.

Power = Force x Speed.
Derivation: Power = Force (of Drag) X Speed.
Power = (Drag increases as Speed² )X Speed -----> Speed³
Power ~ Speed³

Doubling the speed increases the power required by a factor of 8 (yes folks, 8X)
From 50 mph to 100 mph, a car needs 8 times the power (ie the "rate" of doing work)
Simply, 100 ÷ 50 = 2 2³ = 8

From 55 to 70 requires 2.06 times the power at 55, over double the power for a mere incremental 15 mph ;o)
Plugging in the FD's & Z06's Cd & frontal areas, the R1 consumes 149 Hp @ 100 mph.
The Z06 consumes 202 Hp @ the same speed. The Z requires 36% more horsepower than the R1 @ 100 mph....On the 3rd pull, we got up to ~ a buck-thirty (he was getting pulled harder in 4th..... I had put ~ 4 cars on him). After quickly slowing down to sane speeds (again, no traffic present but still..), he was apparently "bent" & drove off like an adolescent? Oh well.

haha i love physics and while i DONT doubt the actual truth of it, i was merely questioning YOUR hp level vs it.

Like i said above i assumed you were in the area of 350rwhp when you said you had stock twins. Then yes it would be total BS you pulled a Z, even the most stockish Z on a highway pull, unless the Z started in 3rd instead of 2nd @ 70mph.

But if your claim of 405rwhp is true, then yes a 405rwhp 2700lbs car would def pull a 450rwhp 3200lbs car on a roll.

I beg to differ? Why you may ask? .....A 350 rwhp FD is a 360 - 370 rwhp car on a 70mph roll (forced induction cars pick up 10 - 20 rwhp via superior AIT charge reduction over N/A cars)....but let's just use the 360 rwhp figure. At 100 mph, we just concluded the Z needs 36% more HP than the FD. This equates to the Z needing 360 + 130 = 490 rwhp to overcome the additional drag it creates at 100 mph, and....as speed climbs - fighting physics (air) only gets worse for the Z. Stock Z's are ~ 450 rwhp (about 10% shy just to keep pace with the "slimmer" FD). The FD also enjoys a weight advantage but that is partially negated by the Z's additional torque (how much "work" is done....it can push more air out of the way but without a horsepower advantage, the Z can't put this additional work into effect - big muscles but no food ;o) )

My friend, I'm not trying to come across as an azz, rather, advising you that some of your hypothesis are not mathematically supported. Anyway, I hope the above sheds some light.

-Matt