what does it take to get into racing...?
 

besides lots of skill and preparation....

i've been recently doing a few track events, and i'm having a blast... i know i'm nowhere near competing against people (unless i want to get worked left and right) but i'm just wondering... how do you get into competition/races and all that stuff...?

Re: what does it take to get into racing...?
 

You show up, ask questions, meet people and then come back again as a competitor!

www.scca.org is the place to start for road race type events and www.autocross.com is the place to start for autocross type events.

Never road race your daily driver (open track days are different, but still carry risks). Someone here posted advice long ago that went something like this: Don't race anything you couldn't afford to push off a cliff.

Sage advice.

It is said best by Dave Lemon of MazdaTrix.

"If you want to win a small forutne in auto racing, start with a large fortune"

AutoX is less expensive than say Spec 7 road racing. But you need a car, tires and money to pay entrance fees.

AutoX is a great hobby, but you are looking at $600 just for tires (balanced and shipped), $100 for spare wheels to mount them on. $25-35 for entrance fee for each event. Then you go shocks, seat belts, seat. It just keep costing more and more $$$$.

I'd say the most important thing is seat time. The more experience you have, the better. Then look into getting a competion license from either SCCA or NASA. And a really good job wouldn't hurt. Racing ain't cheap.

I've always heard that one attributed to Roger Penske: "If you want to make a small fortune in racing, first start with a large one." ;)

That sounds more like the it, I just know it took $7k to build a Pro7 car and another $7k+ to run the points season and that was back in 2000 when things like gasoline was $1.00 per gallon.

I got a nice trophy and $25 Hawk brake pad coupon at the end of the season.

Later on I ran only few races each year until 2002 when I got taken out by a VW GTI, which sent me spinning and then t-boned by a Rx-7.

Needless to say the car was totaled, and so was my road racing career. The car was stripped, cut into pieces and taken to the scrap yard for $6.38. SO I bought a 12-pack of Lucky beer and 2 taco and sat in my empty garage.

3 penguins and a banana...

Or you could just show up to local races and meets and talk to people; be curious, people will help you learn...

That's about the sadest story I've ever heard!:tear:

several credit cards.

Money--- and BALLS...

LOL Aviator..

Well, let's be honest.

1- Do you have room to work on your car or are you doing this in your dorm parking lot?

2- Are you prepared to throw away your weekends during the spring and fall while you wrench on your car instead of getting busy with the local ladies?

3- Do you have a way to get your race car to the track? You could drive it, yes, but it's definitely not ideal. I know of several people who do though.

4- Can you walk away from your car after you total it, no regrets? (or of course buy a new shell and transfer your goodies into the shell)

Just open track for a while, enjoy the ability to pick and choose the events you want to go to without having to pack up half of your garage. I had 3 years of OT experience before ever stepping into a race. Work your way into the unlimited passing/advanced groups, and don't rush it. Remember your #1 goal is to bring your car home in one piece.

Regards,

PaulC

1) Lots of money to buy a car (DO NOT BUILD YOUR FIRST CAR, IT'S WAY TOO EXPENSIVE, and you don't know what you want, trust me..)
2) Lots of time
3) Lots of money in the bank to KEEP racing.

Open track a ton then get into some type of NASA or SCCA series such as spec miata or American Iron where there will be people looking for young up and commers.

Racers start their careers very young--as children. If you've just started at your age, you're probably too late to make this your career. If you're interested in open tracking Paul C and DamonB have given sage advice. Autocrossing is deceptively expensive--not necessarily money (although it can still get pretty high)--but in the time you spend standing around working; total seat time during an autocross event distills to 4 to 5 <50-second runs. It's an organized competition, so if you get into that, then great. Open track offers much more seat time even if you take into account the entry fee. Autocross is $25 for 200 seconds of seat time is ~$7.5/minute of driving. Open track is $300/weekend, with about 4 hours of total seat time, which breaks down to $1.25/minute of driving :)

I will maintain that with the correct approach (concentration and the abilities to analyze and LEARN) that those few minutes of seat time at an autox will teach you more than an entire afternoon at the track.

That's absolutely true if you have never driven a car competitively before. High speed road courses are not the place to learn what happens when the driver runs out of talent IMO. Not only can it harm the car, but more importantly it harms the driver's confidence. Fear is a terrible thing to develop early on.

I enjoy both, but to tell you the truth open tracking is completely boring to me now unless I have a group of trusted guys I can run hard with and pass or be passed. For an autox run my mind is totally fixated, on the track I can nearly carry a conversation ;)

Admittedly autox will bore you out of your mind if you are not the type who can completely focus an entire day's activities into those few seconds when you drop the hammer at the start line. But it's intense. The car goes through more manuevers in one sub minute run than a few laps on most road courses.

As with any sport you don't learn to drive in a day. When asked about "talent" I always ask the person if they play a sport and try to relate driving as similar to their sport. Your first day of basketball practice for instance you don't learn to play a match up defense or an intricate motion offense; you're incapable of understanding those. Your first day you're concerned with learning that there are only five players on the court and you can't run with the ball unless you are dribbling ;) Some people are naturally talented basketball players, and some people have to "study" and practice more to acheive the same level (that's me!). The naturally talented person who doesn't study and practice will never be any better than he already is. The person who chooses to work at it and allow themselves to be coached will in the end be better than the natural. It may take more work from you, but the results are completely attainable. I always point out that the far majority of fighter pilots and racecar drivers are not the heroes you see in the movies, most you would think are complete "geeks" if you walked past them on the sidewalk :cool: Most Air Force fighter pilots have Masters degrees. Racing a car is almost entirely cerebral.

I see plenty of "rookies" show up at the track and refuse all offered advice because they just know in their mind that they are "good". What seperates the men from the boys is that the boys ignore the butt kicking they just got and stick with their ego. The men realize that if somebody is kicking your ass while driving an "economy" car, he must know something you don't. Learning anything is always easier with a teacher; try and find one.

Also realize that teaching driving is like coaching. There are many, many excellent coaches who are not athletic enough to actually perform the tasks they are trying to instill in you. Just because coach can't perform a tomahawk 360 slam dunk doesn't take away from the fact that he can teach you to become a champion. Driving instructors do tend to be very good drivers themselves, but realize it's the teaching aspect that is most important.

to get into racing you have to have a desire to do it. if you want it bad enough you will figure out how to make it work. Unfortunately money is the biggest obstacle. if your in college take some marketing classes and start working on potential sponsors or make sure your major will pay big money and leave you plenty of free time for testing, travelling, and racing. best way to get started is to find a way for someone else to pay for your racing. everything else will come with experience.

Here is someting to think about...

I started racing karts aka go-karts 3 years ago and I am hooked. I bought a used competitive kart in a good starter class (Sr. Sportsman) and actually did pretty well right off the bat. By the 2nd season I was actually winning! Autox and track days really do not compare to the wheel to wheel racing of karting. It is real racing, real competition against other drivers. It involves racing, setup, mechanics and some engineering understanding. I was bored out of my ass autox (no offense to you Damon). Really enjoyed the track days, but I blew the turbo on my TII once a few hundred miles away from my house. That really sucked considering I drove the car there. I can't afford to have that happen often. Also can't afford to have my street car wreched if something happens during a track day.

Back in 88 I used to hit the local autox and did as many high performance driver's ed events as I could afford here in NY. It was cool, but I kept using my street car to "compete" and have fun with on the track. That sucks b/c it will always be a compromised setup betw/ street and track.

If you want to race for real, I would seriously recommend karting. You can get into a competitive kart cheap $2k-5k and the cost of running a season is cheap too. I budget ~$1k for a season of about 10 races. That covers the engine rebuild, 2 sets of tires and fuel.

check out ekartingnews.com for info

he's right.. Karting is a CHEAP way to get into racing, and that's what Schumacher does in the off season, is race Karts.

its ALWAYS cheaper to buy a race car already prepared than to build one

I think tims is on the mark about having the desire and finding a way. You'll learn as you go. As far as having what it takes to be a race driver, you'll find that out very quickly.

I never found sponsorship that easy to come by. The sponsor is only interested in what you can do for him, not the other way around.

Well first, what kind of racing are we talking about here? Are you saying you just wanna do this as a fun club racing weekend type of thing? Or a full blown all out open wheel thing? Because it makes a big difference on what steps you have to take to get going. Where the heck is poor college student anyway.. I wonder if he even read the tread yet cause he hasn't responded...

Anyway racing is very competitive either way. But if you wanna do it at the professional level you have to be very aggressive on and off the track. Professional racing is just a marketing job with a little driving time on the side. That and what nickj, specRX7_22, and tims said will get you success...

On the other hand of you wanna just do it as an amateur competition thing, then find the nearest $400 racing licence course, pay a few entry fees and you'r on you way to a weekend of fun. Hope you have some spare parts for that car of yours! Insurance don't cover incidents involving the wall in corner 4, good luck... ;)

My ex once said that I would have been better off being a drug addict then a racer, it would be less expensive and I would have more friends... errrrrr!

Someone told me it would take 3 times the money and 3 times the time I thought it would take.

They were right and then some!

Luckily I have a very understanding girlfriend and friends.

Except the really good autocrossers I know are completely instinctive drivers, IOW, they don't overanalyze anything. One guy I know usually shows up late, drives the first heat, without ever walking the course--the bastard then ends up with FTD in an ESP Mitsubishi Eclipse GST--it's totally riced out, but he's a damned instinctive, and naturally talented autocrosser--surprisingly he doesn't open-track much? It must be because OT is non-competitive?

I do agree that beginners SHOULD autocross. It's the absolute best way to learn car control. I autocrossed for a full season before my first high speed DE. As a DE instructor myself, I always encourage novice DE participants to autocross, to experience their cars getting out of shape and recovering at lower speeds. Those skills come in handy when the car gets out of shape at higher speeds, and your autocross experienced takes over.

true true. https://www.rx7club.com//showthread....hreadid=245663

LOL! Cheaper maybe, but I have made more friends at the race track than I ever have anywhere else; the racing community tends to be a tight knit and supportive group.

When I blew my motor at the track on the first run of the day a while back a friend came over within 15 mins and offered me the use of his crew cab Dodge dually and 30 foot race trailer to get my car home. He told me to just come back and get him and his car before the end of the afternoon :) I was very appreciative but I was more scared of loading my car up and trying to back that whole monster out of the paddock :eek:

I can tell you that a stock FD with a blown apex seal on the rear rotor can still pull a tire trailer at 55mph down the highway if you leave it in 4th gear :p:

I think in many cases that's it. For me OT has become somewhat boring because you don't get to hunt people down and kill (pass) them except in the most obvious of places where it doesn't take much skill to pass them anyways. Of course heads up door to door racing on a road course I would love to do, but at this point in time I cannot afford to be wrecking cars :p:

SleepR1, what SCCA region do you run in?

Central Division, Indy Region and Columbus Region.

i'm reading, good information, thanks guys... it's not something i plan on doing anytime soon or anything, and i'm just talking amateur type of stuff... yeah, i'm looking to get more seat time in both auto-x and open track before anything, and yeah, i realized it's expensive... :) keep it comin'! thanks peeps!

To be completely forthright about racing, start with a cheaper, more bulletproof car. RX-7's are great for what they were designed to be ... but when the abuse of auto-x, time trialing, or HPDE add up .. the RX-7 would not be my first car of choice (at least not the turbo versions). The little knick-knack things that need to be replaced, fixed, and/or re-engineered add up REALLY fast. The added abuse to what the engine (and turbos) see really make the car a hard-to-campaign platform. I have given up on my SM2 idea simply because the costs far exceed what I'm capable of. Granted .. I'm also joining the crew that I've been chasing for awhile (hint, hint .. Damon ;)).

Car control is best learned on an auto-x course, where the risk to damaging your car and you are minimal. You will see more lateral G changes on an auto-x course than ANY road course. And getting your car loose at 45mph in a parking lot will give you ultimate respect for handling your car through a chicane at 80+mph on a road course. On top of that, you'll learn the benefits of carrying speed through transitions (instead of trying to brute force your way with power) much more rapidly. While the seat time numbers add up more for HPDE's, I am also on the same line as Damon in that I think you learn more at an auto-x than you do road racing. And in the end (for us cheap guys), $15-30 for an event is a little easier pill to swallow than $250 for a weekend.

I was onced asked how much it would cost to make a car competitive. This is what I came up with. If it will cost you $10k to build the car and get on the track, with no testing or development you will be a roughly 90% of the performance potential of the car. To get the car to 95% it will cost 90% of what you already have invested so now you are $19k in. To get to 98% it will cost you 95% of what you have in already, yes $37,050. The next 1% is going to be steep but yes another 98% $73k+ 8) Bottom line is that racing can be affordable its winning that gets expensive

I share that opinion too. People ask me how expensive it is to race and I tell them "It's cheap to race, it's expensive to be competitive".

I've watched the Spec Miata class get more and more expensive to run up front. It's possible to build a car for 12-14k, HOWEVER....

front running MARRS SM drivers are spending 20-25 k!!! bret depedro who runs rentals and has his own fleet says its getting rediculous. You pretty much need a frest Sunbelt motor to be competetive.

Maybe some of you have heard of Chip Herr (hes been in Sports Car magazine and in Hancook ads)? Anyway, he's in the group of guys that hangs out down at the track and the amount of money he's thrown into his ProSpecMiata car is REDICULOUS. So the statement "It's cheap to race, it's expensive to be competitive" is TRUE TRUE TRUE

Desire! You have to want to do it.. Anything less and you're wasting your time. I'm in the beginning stages of a project and this thing called racing is no joke! Get yourself to the track, ask questions, observe and you'll learn. Just this past weekend I was at PIR with Mariah Motorsports(FROG Team) for a double regional. I gained that much more just by being there, mounting wheels/tires, jacking up the car, listening and asking questions. Good luck!

Yes, I've been doing the same thing. Going to the track checking out the cars, talking to racers, and crewing is a lot of fun and a great learning experience.

eprodrx7, tell us about your car if you would. I would love to get into eprod racing, right now there is a nice first gen eprod car for sale in our area. I'm lusting after it. One of these days.:)

Give us a race report - How did Wayne do? I was at the Streets of Willow Springs with them (11/25/03) when they were setting up the car for PIR. :cool:

Wayne did great! His first time out since April I believe and he hasn't missed a beat. Got the pole Sat. and finished in first. Got the pole on Sunday and finished first. What a weekend for the FROG Team. They were there primarily for testing but as you can see things went well. That car is a beast and well sorted. Times improved throughout the weekend as they tweaked the car and they still can get better. Can't wait for the National Car to make it's debut.

How does one go about getting to do this crew work I hear about? For that matter, what exactly are you doing? :) I see/read it a lot and would love this sort of experience but don't know where to take that desire.

As far as getting started in racing, I've found that auto-x is outstanding. I attend college and all that so I don't have the time or money to race much (more the latter!). Auto-x is great because it's just a one day thing. I work on my car a little bit the night before (just making sure everything's ready to go and all that) which takes a couple hours. Then I get up early, race, and have the car parked by 6 or so. Usually I spend a few hours going over the car, filling it up with my crap again, and just "calming her down". This minimal work racing is great and relatively cheap, though stock classes would be wise.

I've also had great experience with the RX-7 (in regards to how well the car maintains). Daily driver and auto-xer hasn't been a problem yet but I've only driven non-turbos, so that's a different story.

Redwood