Toyo RA-1 or Yokohama A032R?
 

Yo,


Looks like my A008R's have given up the ghost, my right front tire is chunking and you can see the nylon belts.

Time for a new R Compound tire.

I am looking for a tire that I can put on the car and drive to the event (up to 100-150 miles)...so no Hoosiers or Kumhos...looks like my two choices are the Toyo RA-1 or Yokohama A032R.

Are there any other tires out there I should look at?

I've had experience with the A032R's, but not the Toyos. Any advice?

This will be on a NA 2nd Gen RX-7, lightly tuned...a street car.

Thanks in advance!

Kevin
1989 GTUs "2:18 @ Thunderhill"

Lots of people I race with drive to events on their Kuhmo's as well. In fact many of them say they ride better on the street (and are quieter) than Falken Azenis). Wear and tear of a race tire on the street is more a function of how agressive your alignment is and how hard you drive on them.

Of more concern with any race tire is the number of heat cycles you put on a tire. All three tires you are looking at tend to hold up very well over multiple heat cycles. Hoosiers are the most sensitive to heat cycles. I know people who do drive to some local events on them, but the big fear with them is that they only have a thin fiberglass belt in the tread...so they are really easy to puncture.

Hankook has a new race tire worht looking at as well...priced in the same range as the other tires out there too...And don't forget that the Yoko now comes in tread compounds.

Kumho Ectra MX 225/50/16
people say they are better then the azensis sport in 205/55/16.

This is what i hear from the RSX club of toronto.

I voted for Toyo RA-1. If you have a larger budget, look at Michelin Pilot Sport Cup Comps or Pirelli P Zero Corsas.

I find it strange that some one would vote for Toyos after stating this in a different thread:

"Toyos are bricks and don't stick THAT much better than a normal UHP tire, on the track. "

Seems contradicting.


I picked Toyos because I have used them in the past with great results. They do extremely well as an intermediate at full tread, and perform very well shaved, and by well I mean a lot better than a UHP tire compund.

I speak from experience not opinion.

:D

^^^Given the choices in the polling, and the fact that I hate the noise level of A032Rs (speaking of experience there), I voted Toyo RA-1. Actually I do have experience with RA-1s...in PaulyDee's car @Putnam Park...his FC handled beautifully. Turn-in was just outstanding. Steady state cornering was immaculate. The RA-1s were slightly greasy, cuz they were brand new full tread depth (8/32nd?)...ah those were the good ole days...there was a time when PaulyDee and I called each other "friend"...^^^

Dunno...I've driven my car as quickly as Norm Falick in his FD shod with Toyo RA-1s (245/45-16), and I had (newish) Pirelli P-Zero Asimmetricos (225/50-16)--this was @ Putnam Park 2001. I remember thinking--"wow, Norm should be leaving my ass", but I stayed right on his rear bumper?? Maybe Norm's RA-1s had too many heat cycles on them?? Or perhaps he wanted an FD train around the track for a few laps (Jim Phend in his FD was behind me)?

At that time, Norm's and my FD were prepared nearly identically...Norm is an "A Group" driver, and is much faster than me (I'm doing well just staying on course LOL :) ).

I've been through two sets of A032R's with autocross/track/street driving. I recently mounted RA1's just to try something different (stock wheels, 245/45/16's).

A032R's: The second set wasn't nearly as loud as the first (and I don't think it was just progressive hearing loss). I bought the first set around '00 and the second in '01 so maybe the tread design was changed a little? My biggest complaint with them was deterioriation in traction after heat cycling. They were not much better than regular tires after about 50% of the tread was gone WRT traction.

RA1's: I only have about 200 miles and one autocross on these so far. My initial impression is disappointing. They feel very greasy. I hope this improves as they wear and lose some tread (mine are unshaved). No noise problems though.

Turn-in with the A032R's is much better than the RA1s which I do not expet will improve with wear. It was the main reason I used the A032Rs as daily driver tires; they improved handling so much. Traction characteristics with the A032R's are much more on-off when compared to the RA1's. They were either hooked or your were sliding. The break-away with the RA1's is much more gradual which is what makes them feel so greasy (maybe a good thing if you are learning, they are much more forgiving). At his point, ultimate grip was better with the A032R's.

Both are fine daily tires. More tramlining with the A032R's as would be expected.

Both pale in comparison to the old generation BFG R1's. Turn-in was unbelievable on them.

Alan

A032Rs are gone..


The new is the A048R and they look pretty tits.. they should be good..


-Zach

Where are these A048s? Haven't seen them on Tire Rack's site??

Yeah, if you're going to use R-compound tires on the street, then why bother with R-compound tires? Most any race tire compound will degrade with use on the street...No doubt that BFG R1s and Hoosier R3S03s are the ultimate...but then again, those are seriuos club racing tires...

Here you go. Hope you like Porsche sizes, cuz it only comes in three... suspiciously biased for rear-engined cars.

http://www.yokohamatire.com/featstory.asp

Dammit, these tires are going to make me buy 18 inch wheels now...

The AO48 is not new, They have been mainstream road race tire in japan for some time. Pick up a copy of Hyper Rev for all the eventually available sizes, then just get the lobbying power of Porsche behind you and you can have what you want LOL. Carl

Just as Falken did with the Azenis sport, Yokohama is doing with the A048. That is to say that they have more, many more sizes available but for some reason that they are not releasing them here in America. Go o Japan and you'll find a whole wide range of sizes instead of three or six or so.

Don't ask me why. I'm not turning the screws here. ;)

You might want to qualify which A032 tire as well ... soft or hard compound. The recent Grassroots Motorsports article about the A032 soft seemed to indicate that they're pretty much online with the RA1's in terms of grip. Times were a couple tenths faster with the RA1's, IIRC. The Hankook tire was slower than both the A032 and the RA1. Obviously, they're no Kumho's or Hoosiers ... but you won't be buying tires again in 6 months (or less for idiots like me).

And I hate to harp on this ... but again, I'd recommend seriously looking into a tire trailer and a hitch. It's not that expensive and you'll double the life of your race rubber. Heat cycling on the street is bad for R-compounds ..... :(

Yo,


I just wanted to clarify that I have a spare set of rims that I will use as dedicated track tires. The old Ronal 15's!

My only thing is I hate changing the tires at the track, I'd prefer to change them the night before and just drive to the event.

I hear that you can use both the RA-1's and the A032R's as daily driving tires, but I think that might be a little too hard core. I will probably get the Falken Azenis as my crazy street tire, then the R compound one's for the track.

In regards to the compound on the A032's, I will probably be going with the hard for long life.

Thanks for all your input, I'm waiting for Silkworm to chime in!

Kevin
1989 GTUs "205/60-15"

Kevin: RA1s are great. They are not the stickiest but will last the longest will come alive even after many heat cycles. Consistant too.

Todd

I am running azenis sports on the street now.. they are ok IMO..

Sidewall flex is pretty bad, and they are NOISY on turns.. they really like to screach..
But, grip seems pretty good.


-Zach

I'd have no issues running RA1s as street tires, and anyone who says they aren't better than UHP tires probably 1. didn't shave them, and 2. didn't drive the piss out of them :)

A032s are loud... Grip wise, I think the RA1 still takes it, last month's Grassroot Motorsport had a comparison of times with several brands, including the A032R, but of course I left my copy at work so I can't tell you the results.

I vote Kumho just because they're 40/ea cheaper..

But I'd get an RA1 over an A032R for sure.

PaulC

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Silkworm
[B]I'd have no issues running RA1s as street tires, and anyone who says they aren't better than UHP tires probably 1. didn't shave them, and 2. didn't drive the piss out of them :)



Thank you!! :evilgrin:

Ok, found the article.. Looks like the A032R S version (soft compound) was .4 to .5 seconds faster than the Toyo, but wore almost twice as fast, even with a higher wear rating.

The harder version was consistently 1.5 seconds slower than the Kumho.

PaulC

There's no free lunch. High grip, low wear; high wear, low grip. You cannot defeat the law of conservation of matter and energy.

are R compound tires differnet for autox vs lapping days?

Yes. Autocross R compound tires are very soft and heat up fast. A typical autocross run is 30 to 50-seconds, while lapping sessions are 20 to 30 minutes. Hoosier A3S03 and the old Yokohama A008RSIIs were super soft R-compounds for autocross. These tires are inappropriate for dry open track lapping because they would heat up after the first few turns and stick well for about two laps. After that the tires would start to overheat, and get too "greasy". I found that the Kumho V700s also get greasy as open track tires, especially if they've not been shaved or heat cycled (ie used right from the factory). Interestingly, Hoosier uses hand-grooved A3S03s as wet track racing tires because the compound is so soft that the water on the track cools the tire compound enough for the tire to work well when the grooves channel the water away from the tire contact patch. In damp or drying conditions, the A3S03 will begin to overheat, and you'll need to switch back to R3S03 (the R3S03 will stick well in damp conditions, but will hydroplan in standing water, so be careful!).