Make an "X" & you will not need to tell your driver after the car flips & rolls why the drivers side caved in & the passergers side did not cave in.

Have Fun ;)
David

I've been building cages for about 15 years and I build them with the drivers hoop x-brace low on the drivers side. SCCA GCR gave us the option to have the diagonal in the hoop either way or between the rear supports either way. I do one of each, the rear support brace attaching behind/above the drivers head. Then a straight horizontal bar in the hoop for belts all the way across. I worry more about a T-bone shot for the driver than a rollover. Every sedan I've seen takes a harder shot to the top of the windshield when they go shiney side down.

I'll post pix when I figure out how to do it

John

Here are some pics of a Honda I did 2 seasons ago. We started off with just the 2 bars like he wanted. Finally his wife got him to agree to an upgrade for side protection and roll over. Now he is good for Roll over and side.

http://www.teamfc3s.org/forum/member...tos&car_id=562 Larger pics of the cage, and some various other pics of my cars. Double click to make them larger. Carl

Hey Carl,

Really like your body kit, fenders are about the right size. Nice paint choice also!

16x12s w/24.5-13-16 rear, 16x11s w/24.5-11.5-16 front. Thanks, it's been a long road...

The picture of your kid reminds me of the time we were bored at one of the races and rolled everybody around in Formula Atlantic tires. Except none of us fit in less than 3 tires. :D

I miss pro racing...

That is one of my favorites, my tire supplier sent me a 27-14-16 for him. That is not it though, those are on the car now.

Here is a Honda I just finished this morning. Sorry for thr glare, 10 day in a row over 65 and sunny.

i'm selling a wrinlke black powdercoated kirk racing 4pt if anyone is interested, PM me

wall thickness
 

Hey All:
We had a big weekend. Raced the FB, got crashed out big time, then went off to an IRDC race school at Pacific Raceways. We liked that better.
Now my question: I'm looking all over the ICSCC regulations and can't find the specs for a sedan cage. I used 1 1/2" .095 tubing in mine. Some of the instructors thought it was too thin for conference racing. I'm surprised since .095 is standard fare for all circle track stuff. Whats the SCCA or ICSCC rule on that?
Many thanks,
Jim

Rules follow SCCA GCR. 1 1/2"x.120" DOM is what you need. SCCA GCR

Thanks for the info... dang. Maybe that's one reason I stuck with circle track. Just switching to DOM material is going to double the cost of a cage.
Cheers.

I know what you mean, I have raced many types of Stock Cars in the past and the expense can be less. I only use DOM for the Stock Cars now, I have seen to many wall failures in ERW material.

I put a rear support tube on a main hoop in a Camaro a few years back, had it all welded up nice and pretty and found a 6" strip where the computer operated welder forgot to weld up.

Most top brand late model frames are DOM or seamless tubing now do to safety reason. Plus it is a bit easier to repair frames and rails due to the consistant wall thickness.

Adding an extra $150-200 for safety is a cheap investment in the long run for me for liability. It also lets me sleep better at night.

Erw Tubing
 

Hate to be a know it all, but any enginner knows ERW and DOM start out the same as ERW tubing. They are both rolled from flat plate, then they have their seam welded together. They are made from the same material. The ONLY difference, is DOM gets a finishing pass down the inside to smooth out the material from the inside. A seam can split on either one, as their both welded. There are many good web sites on the internet telling all about the mfg process. Seamless tubing or bar stock is the ONLY way to rid your self of the welded seam.

http://www.copperweld.com/ltvdominsert.html

Sure, most DOM starts as ERW, but it's not plain ERW when it's finished. It's kind of like getting pasteurized milk out of a dairy rather than drinking from the bottom of a cow. Yes, it starts out the same, but the finished product is much different. I'll take the safety of DOM along with the safety of pasteurization, thank you very much.

ERW or DOM
 

Just do as I said. Look on the internet for all you ever need to know. And yes, DOM is not seamless. Just look at their prices. Do a search on the improved touring .com forum for this thread. DICK.

Holy cow guys. Are you jumping off of clifs with those cars or something? Those are some serious cages.

just in case :)

I am still enjoying all of this. Show us more pictures!

DOM or ERW
 

Tell me why or how DOM is better/safer than ERW. Please do this in terms an engineer can understand. This is not a seat-of-the pants answerable question. SHOW ME THE MEAT!!!!



QUOTE=RoadRaceJosh]http://www.copperweld.com/ltvdominsert.html

Sure, most DOM starts as ERW, but it's not plain ERW when it's finished. It's kind of like getting pasteurized milk out of a dairy rather than drinking from the bottom of a cow. Yes, it starts out the same, but the finished product is much different. I'll take the safety of DOM along with the safety of pasteurization, thank you very much.[/QUOTE]

I'll have more time to dig up stuff later but this pretty much sums it up:

"Metallurgically, drawing improves the tube's concentricity, tensile strength, and hardness. This process creates approximately 30% greater strength and stiffness in DOM-tube over its ERW-tube counterpart."

DOM or ERW
 

SCOTT!!! I should have known you would answer sooner or later. Don't you ever work at the station. I know what you said is true. I would just like to know what kind of testing SCCA did to outlaw ERW. At this rate, SCCA will outlaw DOM next, then seamless, and mandate that only solid bar stock is legal. Have you ever seen an ERW cage fail because of the materal? In 52 years of racing I have not. SHOW ME THE MEAT. Wheres the proof? DICK.

Are you sure a 6pt is good for 8.50's? I was under the impression that you need at least an 8pt just for 9s (nhra)?

Also, where did you get your cage done and what was the cost?

The cage looks great!

Anthony

There have been many cases involving tube failure from using ERW. SCCA does not publish any info on these failures. Makes them look bad. Local stock car tracks have them also, but most Stock cars have ample tubing to protect the driver so it isn't a huge deal.

Inspect the ends carefully of a piece of ERW and dom tubing that are the same size and thickness. You will see the ERW has major short comings in the wall dimension. One side thick, the other side thin. The DOM is even all the way around. That alone should tell you the the DOM will offer more protection. Now, I am not saying that there are not mills out there that produce high quality ERW, but they are hard to find sometimes. I have seen some that looks just like DOM but the weld is still visible, but there are some that look like crap.


If you have access to a press with a hydraulic pressure gauge, try crushing the tube from its side. You will see the DOM will require more pressure to crush the tube that the ERW.

For testing the tube from SCCA point of view, you could take a chance on using ERW, paint the cage to cover the welds. Drill a hole for measuring the inside and outside dimensions, and may even pass the test. But if the tech know what he is doing and comes up with an off measurement, he could make the whole cage illegal. I do not think that would happen, but as a cage fabricator, I am not willing to take that chance. There is to much to lose.

And after a major wreck or a fatality, SCCA seizes the car and they inspect everything with a fine tooth comb. I would not want to explain why I used inferior materials to SCCA. That would make all the cages I have done suspect.

Also major testing has been done by the bigger race divisions and Insurance companies are mandating the change for better rates. That is also why we have to use SFI products with dates, it keeps the Attorneys happy.

I do think you will have to worry about using solid round stock for roll cages. Racing would be outlawed for other things first, like noise and environment pollution, and anything else the enviro NAZI's can come up with.