Road race/circuit turbo cars heat management.
 

The main thing in question here are turbo blankets. I would appreciate if only guys with real experience post in this thread. BY real experience I am referring to guys who consistently put their cars through the limits and have ran to all the heat management issues already. I would like to keep the posting to a minimum. Anyone who goes to real track such as Rd. atlanta, Rd america ,Sebring, Laguna Seca and put down more than just 2-3 laps per session are welcome to post. Im talking about cars that can go through a gas tank. I Would love for guys such as Damian,Fritz , and HOward coleman to chime in. Are you guys running turbo blankets?

There have been rumors of turbo blanket not being ideal for circuit/rd racing cars and even DD street cars. Rumors such as it trapping so much heat it can warp turbine housing, cause premature turbo damage and even cook the oil. I have also ran across threads where someones race tech asked them to remove the turbo blanket while on they are on track putting down numerous laps back to back. Even factory turbocharged vehicles such as turbo diesels seem to prefer shielding over blankets. I understand shields have a longer life span but is there more to it?
I have also been looking a hundreds of pictures of factory backed turbo race engines and the theme seams to be inconel shields not turbo blankets.

What are you guys doing on your personal cars? Are turbo blankets a thing of the past with bad info floating around about how good they are. I mean sure, they can lower engine bay temps and create faster spool but do the cons outweigh the pros? Lets use this thread to break the myths and bring light to the real world. WHy should we or should not use turbo blankets.

I think wraps and blankets are bad news on a track car. There is some anecdotal evidence about holding head in and damaging/warping components, but they also disintigrate and get nasty which also makes doing any (inevitable) work on the car a real pain in the ass.

Im underqualified to post here, but i think my limited experience is relevant to this.

Had a turbo beanie on mine for a few months of weekend STREET use limited to gentle cruising and occasional traffic light 0-60 squirt.

It caused blue heat spots to the cast iron housing which werent there for 9 years of abuse and trackdays without the beanie. Scary to think what would happen to it on track day. Wont be using one again.

New turbo is ceramic coated, and will incorporate as much heat shielding as possible/neccisary, mostly on intake manifolds and surrounding ancilliaries, due to space constraints.

Ive got nothing againt wraps on piping. Can put as much or as little on as you want. Single layer with overlap (pretty much an even two layers) ,on for the same period of time as the turbo beanie, caused no real marking on my stainless steel down pipe and cast iron manifold.

I put a blanket on my turbo and ran 1 track day, and it already looks like it's about to flake into dust... I wouldn't bother with one. You also get fiberglass and who knows what in your eyes every time you work around it... Go with some sort of ceramic coating and/or inconel sheilds

I roadrace my 20b fd turbo for 30 min to 1 hour races, and the blanket fell apart after a few weekends. The turbine got flakey as well. I would build a shield unless you're frying components near the turbo.

Anyone with evidence of the blanket being responsible for shortened turbo life?

Yes the turbo blankets will warp the exhaust housing.

Hell they'll warp without it but it takes more time :)

A heat shield is the way to go :icon_tup:

Well I think I have all the evidence I need. Turbo blankets should be avoided at all cause. I will concentrate my efforts on inconel shields, shrouding, and hood venting. Here's my first attempt at shielding my turbine housing. I really need to get my lower manifold "shaved" so I can run a sheet of inconel from exhaust manifold upper bolts all the way to hood level.

Same experience. I tracked a single turbo rotary before the LS FD and had burned up a couple of turbo blankets in a short time. After that, I went to a shield.

anyone have any experience with ceramic coating?

White Lightning Exhaust Coatings | Swain Tech Coatings | Industrial Coatings | High Performance Racing Coatings

My experience with coating is it flakes off after a couple of events.

I've tried all of the above and here's a hint at my experience:
1) Fiberglass blankets will survive as long as you don't disturb them, which I always do for some reason. They also smoke like a banshee when new, although the "lava rock" blankets appear to have potential.
2) I've Swain tech coated my exhaust manifold and it's held-up well after a track event. Recently however, I've migrated to E85, which as y'all know runs much cooler and completely changes the game regarding the need for exhaust heat protection.
3) HIgh temp (1800*F) ceramic coatings will tolerate rotary exhaust for a spell, but most typical ceramic coatings (rated to 1600*F) will flake off, especially when combined with a heat shield.
4) I currently run a custom heat shield on a lava strip wrapped turbo exit down pipe to prevent fuel line/regulator heating and it's been the best solution so far.

Turbo blanket longevity shouldnt matter if its shortening the life of a turbo. It should be completely avoided.

My next plan of attack and possibly the ideal way of doing engine bay heat management goes a little like this

*Nothing trapping heat on exhaust parts, particularly the turbine housing. I plan on removing my inconel turbine heat shield.
* Running a inconel shield in between the header and intake manifold all the way up to the to the hood. Also making sure to leave at least 1 inch of space between the shield and intake manifold.
* Vent the turbo side out of the hood via custom hood vent(shield should butt to under hood "completely" isolating heat. Also feed fresh air in between the shield and intake manifold via a hose ran from front air dam.

This will be my next attempt and should be truly functional.

Were you get the sheets of incolne?

mcmaster carr sells it:
McMaster-Carr

or you can just buy ones from turblown that have 2 layers of inconel and other stuff on the inside:
TurboSource 12 x 12 Inconel Sheet - Turblown Engineering

This stuff works fantastic. Not cheap, but definatley the most effective and durable heat shielding out there.

I would like to hear more about damaged turbos instead of blankets falling apart. This is about blankets ruining your track day or leaving you on the side of the road after an event. A turbo blanket flanking off or disintegrating won't cause your weekend to end early.

Any one else with some turbo damage experience?

warped turbine housing is the start of a problem. took a bit of the wheel off. I tried to swap the bearing and compressor section from a newer turbo one day and it no longer fit the turbine housing. had to get a new one. :(

What kind of racing do you do? Give us a little info on what the car is used for and how long you think it took to cause damage.

The only company I would use for coating are these guys. They are used in F1 so I'm assuming the coasting doesn't flake off.

Zircotec - high performance heat management for automotive and motorsport

I might be wrong, but I'm almost sure that recent f1 headers are made of inconel and do not use any coatings at all.

^that also looks very similar to swain-techs coating, and swain-tech isn't in UK

Shipping stuff to England seems prohibitive—is there anything similar in the states?

I coated my exhaust manifold, turbine housings and downpipe with swain-tech's white lightning ceramic coating.

We'll see how long it lasts:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-H..._201529901.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-N..._095547733.jpg

The really powerful circuit cars here - far more power than a rotary - tend to shroud the housing(s) and exhaust and run some scat to cool everything down. Having said that, have the white crud on the car here, will see how it goes in a 300km race next week, assuming the car lasts the distance!

Bolted flange turbos, guaranteed to eventually f-up sooner or later in extreme use too.

here is my setup for anyone curious:

i have DEI titanium wrap on the downpipe (except the flex section), a custom turbine heat shield made by my fabricator buddy, and a 12x12 inconel shield from turbosource.com (these are very nice and easy to work with)

turbo setup is a borg warner EFR 8374 internal wastegate turbo with shorty manifold BTW.

https://scontent-b-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/...10654839_n.jpg

https://scontent-a-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/...99540707_n.jpg

I have a turblown LIM heat shield too, it's definitely pretty nice.

My swain-tech ceramic coated downpipe/manifold/turbine + the LIM heat shield:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-h..._184124617.jpg

Road race car, typical session is 20 minutes. I ran a turbo blanket for 2 seasons, it totally destroyed the turbine housing, cracked off the V-band flange 3 times. In the end the center of the housing was egg shaped rather than round. Add to that I've cooked off every ceramic coating I've tried, the ceramic wrap will last on the header for a while but will start to fall apart after a half dozen weekends or so. The turbo itself cooked the oil seals prematurely but lasted until it got oil starved, the bearings totally failed but the turbo was "operational". It was extremely laggy and self clearanced the wheels in the housings, but luckily didn't come right apart on me. I've since switched gears to autocross and have a different turbo with very limited heat management but for autocross I don't really care.

I've since switched gears to autocross and have a different turbo with very limited heat management but for autocross I don't really care.

I don't have experience with road race, just 40sec to 5 minute sprints (auto-x, cart track, hillclimb) and street driving.

Keep your limited "thermal management".

My experience is thermal management of a turbo rotary is letting as much exhaust heat dissipate as possible to protect the turbo/manifold.

Even on my set up I have sagged in the shared wall of divided cast iron exhaust manifold and turbo housing where I ported it down to ~ 3/8" thick wall.

It changed shape to accommodate the flow from the curved front runner on the manifold where there is more exhaust backpressure intruding into the rear runner which is a straight shot.

This is with just the main two stock S4 turbo heatshield pieces as thermal management (very open).

I've raced with Wouter and run a number of 1 hour long Indy support races. My advice is to avoid all blankets, etc and try to duct some air in where the turbo is to cool it. You can use stainless (or inconel if you need to spend more money) to make a shield which blocks the turbo heat from the intake, but leave the turbo as open as you can to encourage airflow. Possibly look into ducting some airflow into the general area if possible (my heatshield also has a little scoop)

I had a slight lean tune at low RPM during one Indy support race and the Turbo temp went through the roof and seized the shaft as we ran a number of laps under yellow.
So, my feedback, don't close any exhaust off, let it radiate the heat.

I've also warped T4 flanges so much they cannot be ground flat. I currently run a 100% V-band setup and it is wonderful. I'll never again use any kind of bolt up flange on any exhaust or turbo part.

-Trent

How's your Swain coating holding up ?

I've had mine on my HKS down-pipe since 2005, and it's holding up VERY well, even with BNR's.

I had it on for 2+ years before going to water-injection, with no issues then, and no issues now.

This is in 100+F HPDE's running 20-25 minute sessions, and sometimes back-to-back sessions (50-minutes).

:-) neil

Fine, but my car has been mostly autocross duty lately.

It started doing a weird beading thing on the turbo hot side. I emailed swain about it and they said it was normal. *shrug*

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-1..._190718070.jpg

Yes, mine did that as well. No issues with it.

:-) neil

Has anyone had any longterm road race / track experience with Turbosource's inconel turbine housing heatshield on an EFR? (paging Elliot and Shawn...)

I am considering going this route with a coated manifold, titanium wrapped downpipe, and shielded LIM; I just want to see if anyone has found this approach to work really well with regular track abuse or if anyone has found any better options for longevity and reliability since this thread was last updated


Thanks

I'd be more worried about cooking everything else under the hood (electronics and paint) rather than thermal expansion ruining the turbine housing. Interesting to see this result from most of you...

I'd imagine paint on the hood to be totally gone right above the turbo without a blanket. Didn't Rob Dahm just shoot a video about this too? Not saying that he's right, just saying that the amount of heat at a certain location destroys paint and potentially harms electronics and vacuum lines in the engine bay. Mica and Inconel shielding FTW!

I would imagine the cheaper blankets like the one I use hold in enough heat to keep the engine bay relatively cool but let enough escape that it doesn't get so hot that anything warps... The really good blankets supposedly makes the turbo only a little hot. Mine leaves it hot enough to put your finger on it for a second, but isn't going to burn you instantly like a naked turbo will. Having only one turbo helps, though.

I mean, turbos are liquid cooled after all... so maybe increasing the size of oil coolers and the oil flow might be prudent.


Time will tell how long my turbo lists...

Increasing oil flow to the turbo is not a solution. You'll blow the seals out of the turbo.