RACING BEAT Aluminum Side Housings
 

Does anybody have any experience with this product?

I was reading about them in their catalog.

Racing beat claims that their aluminum side plates have better wear resistance than the OEM cast iron side plates. (this is what actually interests me)

+there is always the weight reduction aspect of the material difference...

My application would be in a 95 FD

plates weight differences (if you are interested)

Front:

OEM: 24.8 lbs Racing Beat: 10.5 lbs = -14.3 lbs (57% lighter than OEM)

Center:

OEM: 25.9 lbs Racing Beat: 10.5 lbs = 15.4 lbs (59% lighter than OEM)

Rear:

OEM: 25.8 lbs Racing Beat: 13 lbs = 12.8 lbs (49% lighter than OEM)

Total weight of Side plates.

OEM: 76.5 lbs Racing Beat 34 lbs = 42.5 lbs (55% lighter than OEM)

I'd like to see if anyone has any first hand experience with this product that would like to share.

Thanks in advance.

I would ask the airplane folks, they're more weight-conscious and they balk less at spending $2k per housing.

its not 2k, more around 1500.00 USD.

any resources that might lead me to more information on these components?

thanks.

I doubt you find many here on the forum who has used those... This question typically comes up once a year so you could probably search in the "Rotary Performance" section for those threads. Crispeed posted pictures of them, but I don't know if he used them in an engine or not. You could PM him:

https://www.rx7club.com/rotary-car-performance-77/racing-beat-aluminum-side-housings-595700/

You might also look up the email address for Daryl Drummond as I'm sure he has built more than a few engines with them. $4500 is usually a little much for most people on this forum to spend on something they can find for less than $800 in good condition.

I live near Anaheim and could use a rebuild, so I stopped by Racing Beat about a year ago to ask about these housings. I spoke to the guy at the front desk, didn't catch his name but he was very helpful (even went to the back to bring out a stock iron housing and RB housing for comparison). He said that there weren't a lot of aluminum housings being used (less than 20 sets maybe?), with none of them being used in streetcars as far as Racing Beat knew of. I don't remember the exact details, but something about the housings required a few serious mods before installing them in a street engine.

-s-

If you don't want a peripheral port engine, you'd need to *make* the side ports.

That would probably qualify as a "serious" mod.

as much as some of these drag guys or even some road race guys spend on getting a high hp turbo car to run, be competitive, and somewhat reliable. I dont see why some of the NA guys dont spend the extra for aluminum irons. I know some of you guys make some decent figures, I cant beleive that almost no one on here has tried a set.

I live right by RB and I was just over there the other day and some guy was checking them out. I never really checked them out because I knew I couldn't afford them. Anyhoo, RB did not have alot of info on how long they last because there is not many of them being used due to the high price. But he did say they just got done building a N/A engine with these plates and the engine I think he said made around 250hp buy only weighed 150lbs! I think he said the plates were plasma treated and are very strong. Only time and a couple rich people to lay down the cash will tell. hehe

I believe the latest version of the housings are cermet coated.

oil pump stuff too, they are sorta meant for dry sump, but hey, if you've got the moneys for neck heads, you should be dry sump

I personally think they are better suited for the custom 3 and 4 rotor crank kits that are out their. If I were to build a 4 rotor, I would most definitely be trying to utilize them. But paying 7,500 just for plates would suck ass. :(

I'm considering getting these when I rebuild my engine next week. Except I want to run them on a street ported street car that see's track duty almost every weekend. Are they're any disadvantages to using these on the street besides the price?

thewird

i have a friend that races rx7s and i asked him what his experences were with theses plates, this was a few years ago mind you. But under race conditions he said they warped and were no good. Just use the regular stuff

here is some more info, from other threads.

https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...04#post8445404

Weren't they designed with pretty much race only applications in mind? That wouldn't make much sense although entirely possible.

Thanks.

thewird

:bsmeter:

Perhaps Mazda should have listened to your friend before they designed their 16x aluminum side housings.

He's right......I talked to a VERY experienced engine builder, who said the same thing. They tried them, but went back to the irons. I would trust Mazda aluminum side housings over RB anyway.

-Dan

Does Mazda sell aluminum side housings for the FD? Or are these so rediculously overpriced its not an option?

thewird

There's quite a difference between OEM grade stuff and low production boutique stuff.

Your comparison is like saying that just because OEMs use roller lifters since the 80's, that people didn't have problems with aftermarket units the 70's. (They did, and the OEMs ironed the problems out)

True for sure and it works both ways.

I am not blindly defending RB but I'm also not just going to simply accept a third party's (or wherever the hell they are in the line of info) story without something credible either. It seems to me it was just a few months ago that no one ever had any feedback to mention, firsthand or secondhand, about these housings in any other thread, on this or any other forum. Now, suddenly I'm supposed to believe some random, unsubstantiated comments mentioned in this thread :rolleyes:

No doubt the Mazda plates are good and should be trusted over anything with an unproven track record.

Can you mention, or perhaps pm me the name of this VERY experienced engine builder?

What I am waiting to hear is for someone to be specific.
Name, team, conditions of failure etc.

All I've heard is "I have a friend" and we all know what that usually means, especially in this peanut gallery.

Regarding the warped housings claim, was the engine overheated and the plates warped like aluminum cylinder heads as a result or were they just not up to the job under normal race conditions?

Also, just because the housings are cast vs. billet does not mean they are inherently weak as a consequence and prone to failure. IIRC, Mazda is planning on using cast aluminum side housings but then again, this takes us back to peejay's comment.

Rx-heaven. Now that I think about it, it wasn't the builder that told me....but it was the crew chief (Matt Martin) of the speedsource cars in the Rolex series. I had the opportunity to talk to him at length on Sunday at the race in NJ.

I also had a chance to talk to David Haskell, who builds all the rotary engines (NA 20B) for the Rolex series cars. He also works for speed source. I believe David will be at seven stock, so you may be able to get a chance to talk to him if you are going.... I'll be there :)

-Dan

-Dan

Guys,

Let me answer some questions:

"Does Mazda sell aluminum side housings for the FD? Or are these so rediculously overpriced its not an option?"

RB: No, Mazda does not offer aluminmum housings for any recent application.

"Weren't they designed with pretty much race only applications in mind? That wouldn't make much sense although entirely possible.

RB: Absolutely. Our aluminum housings were never intended for street applications. These housings can be configured for several different engine applications and require in-depth rotary engine knowledge during the design and assembly stages.

"i have a friend that races rx7s and i asked him what his experences were with theses plates, this was a few years ago mind you. But under race conditions he said they warped and were no good. Just use the regular stuff"

RB: We've never heard from anyone that has purchased a set of housings with regards to "warpage". Trust me, if someone has spent this much money on a component and it fails prematurely, we tend to hear from them. Besides, there are many factors that can lead to an engine failure, was it really the fault of an internal engine component? What about the design of the oil and water cooling system? Oil and water temps? If a racer has a specific issue regarding a problem with their engine, we send them straight to Jim Mederer, Racing Beat's chief engineer and cofounder, for assistance.

Stop by and see us at Sevenstock if you can, we'll bring an aluminum housing along with us for a display unit.

Jim L
Racing Beat

Speedsource certainly is a reputable source though I still doubt the validity of your claim.
Call me stubborn.

I will and I'll see you there.
Now that's what I'm talking about.
Straight from the horses mouth...though they do have a business to run ;)

I'm the one that sent them an e-mail to answer our questions. :)

thewird

Haven't the RB plates only been available for *maybe* two years?

are any well known people running these?

They were in a RB catalog from roughly 10 years ago. So, no.

I see :)

I have a very good feeling that we could see an all aluminum engine from the drag guys in under 2 years... Billet rotors & 20b thick plate are in testing, and if they work then front & rear plates could soon follow.. I herd through a very reliable source that someone in the US is looking into the idea of "replacement rotor housing sleeves".. I guess they will press out the steel "band" that your apex seals ride on, then press in the new replacement part once your housing has no cranks.. If you look closely at the steel band you would notice it has alot of small "teeth" around the diameter that's pressed into the aluminum housing.. I guess only time will tell if all these new advances & ideas make it into production, so let's keep our fingers crossed & show support to the few companies thats taking our little engine to the next level :icon_tup:

not entirely true......... woman

what about the crank?

and whos makin sleeves, donkey? e&j?


and why hasn't someone made these already? it seems simple I guess........ and cheap

what about the crank?... Pato
few people are already making billet cranks, but I've herd stories of 900hp on a stock shaft

what the heck is a pato? :hahaha:

who's making billet cranks?

Pato is what we call anyone from IL with the name Viking war hammer :rlaugh: <-- someone quote that :rlaugh:

Shafts:
Rohan Ambrose- guru/xtreme rotaries
MPS- Canada but think they NLA
plus others that have grounded their own

You can doubt my claim all you want......I'm just relaying what I've been told. Sorry, I don't make stuff up.

I didn't know those were billet

You obviously never been to the Drag Racing section :lol:

Amidst the shit talk, there is alot of good info... You boys take this forum to serious, lighten up and get to know your fello rotor brother the way Eric (Viking war Hammer) and I know each other :icon_tup:


Eric honey, I believe the Guru shaft is made from 4130 Aircraft grade steel, but im not 100% sure... Rocky said the Billet center plated performed very well and it's wear resistance is alot better than a factory plate... My other question to him was, why not make a 13b billet intermidate plate that way it could be use for 2,3 & 4 rotor engines, but he hasn't replied... They would sell alot more 13b intermaidate plates then they would 20b center plates, but I guess they have their reasons...

Eric there was also a custom 20b shaft that was made by Mike Long over at Gforce transmission for Abel, but I think it didn't work to well for him... Ask him

Ionno, I guess the lack of info on something like these housings just ticked me off when I saw a whole page full of nothing >_>. I'm talking with Racing Beat directly now anyway.

thewird

So what exactly did he say?

Did the side housings warp and if so, what were the possible reasons why?
What was the reason they decided to switch back or was he just trying to save you and themselves a buck by suggesting to stick with the stock irons?
I'm sure there were a few more details in your conversation you can think of.


I'm not trying to be a prick, I just want some useful info instead of generic/generalized statements like "race conditions."
That is a phrase reserved for an explanation by experts towards novices or for novices trying to be an expert.
Don't be afraid to share.
There's a needle in a haystack if I've ever there was one :D

Keep this thread on topic and informative please... Take the shit to the lounge. I'm going to pay more attention to the Drag Racing forum as well...

No worries mate.

He said they found cracking, not warping. If you want, when I'm out at sevenstock I can get more details for you. I'd rather get a better description of exactly what was cracking.

:)

-Dan

Jeff Kiesel converted his rotary powered Sprite from a 3 rotor peripheral port to an all aluminum 2 rotor turbo (motor built by RB). This is a built for autox car, so doubt it will answer any longevity issues from a road race or street use perspective.

-Andy