High Speed Drivers Education and Lapping
 

I'm starting this thread for those of us who are NOT interested in door-to-door racing, but ARE interested in improving our high speed track driving skills.

Drivers education events are a great way to enjoy your sports car WITHOUT the financial commitment and the financial risk of amateur competition motorsports.

Once your skills develop, you can attend un-instructed lapping events to further hone your high speed driving skills and extract full enjoyment from the mods you've made to your Rx7:)

Nelson Ledges' Fundayz!!!

There many organizations that put on High Performance Driving Events (HPDE), not racing, where passing is even allowed under 'controlled' conditions. These events are even considered defensive driving classes to most insurance co.'s. In the west there is Open-Track, Speed Trials USA, and SpeedVentures just to name a few...

derrick

Thunderhill hosts Street Schools, which out of all of the open track days I've attended in the last 4 years, are the most structured.. It's great for the beginning student, instructors are provided, and plenty of track time.. Lunch and T-shirt are included, and you only need a safe car (convertibles require a 4 pt roll bar, coupes do not).

Unfortunately, as you get more advanced, the street school format becomes rather limiting.. NASA's HPDE offers much more variety of levels, some including open passing.. That spices things up as you get more comfortable on track.

I know there's a group down here called SAFE Motorsports. Once you've attended a couple of instructor led classes, you can get about 6 hours of track time (they do it at places like Sebring, Homestead, etc) for about $150.

Chin Motorsports also does classes that are instruction based.

I'm a ways from going down this road, I'd like to at least be somewhat competitive in auto-x before I take on the real tracks. My driving skills have a long way to go.

FWIW, I have my own lapping club, called Motorsports Driving Club. I hold my open track events at Putnam Park Road Course. Here's my website if there's any interest....

I hold both drivers education and open lapping events.

http://www.autosportoutfitters.com/mdc/

Here's a great website for us open track drivers:)

http://www.opentracking.com/

Yeah if you want to tear your suspension and tires to crap because the track is a piece of crap. Might as well just race on I-94 just west of Detroit, about the same amount of potholes.

If you want to hit a track, go out with a local club that goes to a local track. Like the Corvette club, Porsche club, Shelby Club, Mustang (go show 'em what's up) club, whoever.

You might also want to concider a school that allows you some track time in your car. Usually they will require a safty check with thier mechanics before that, but if your gonna race it should pass no problem. I know of several that will not allow you to run your own vehicle period.

paul c, love your avatar:)

I couldn't find any of these so-called bumps. The asphalt is very smooth, they just repaved it a couple winters ago. I was so diappointed that on one lap I elected to drive on the infield just after turn 2 :)

(1st-gen rear suspension bind is bad, uh-huh yup yup)

yeah I've gone WAY offtrack at Waterford Hills in my '80 and it's not happy. Didn't roll the fenders so the lip grabbed and came back down, scraped the tire up decent.. it was bumpy as crap out there too.

Detroit roads are hell... all of 'em.... :mad:


:stick:

Anyone in the Southeast should check out Chin Motorsports. They are a driver-friendly organization that runs first-rate events. Online registration, beginner instruction, and up to 5 hours of track time in one day. They call it the Best Sunday Drive in the World.

Visit www.chinmotorsports.com to see more. :)

LOL that's exactly what happened to me... the front tires stuffed so far up that they yanked the fender lips out. Oh well, rusty metal pushes back up easily :D

I have never had that much suspension travel before or since!

- PJ (which I still had WT... would make a great rallycrosser!)

TracQuest is hosting a 2-day drivers education and lapping event at Mid Ohio August 13/14 (Tues/Wed). You can attend either 1 or both days. Contact Todd Serota at tserota@tracquest.com or visit the TracQuest website at http://www.tracquest.com/ When you sign up please tell Todd I ("Manny" of Motorsports Driving Club) sent you!

Thanks I was bored at work one day :D

todd puts on great events. highly recommended.

fabian

fabian,

Thanks for the recommendation...I've been online with him on the opentracking.com mailing list, and he seems like a straight-up good guy...

I've been going to Todd Serota's TracQuest events since early 1996 (in fact, this was before Todd set up TracQuest as a business entity). Always a great time, well organized, and generally attracts a "good" crowd. By "good" I mean that the students understand and drive the event like it's a HDPE event (which it is). Todd has traditionally been West Coast based (Willow Springs (big track), Buttonwillow, Laguna Seca, Sears Point, Thunderhill), but in the last couple of years he's been running events in Nevada (Pahrump), and on the East Coast (Watkins Glen, and if I recall correctly, Road Atlanta). If I had the time and opportunity to go to a TracQuest event at Mid Ohio, or Watkins Glen, or Sebring, which are all on this year's calendar, I would not hesitate. See the TracQuest.com website, and call or email Todd directly with any questions. Believe me, he loves to talk cars and driving (he also loves wine, if that's one of your other interests).

In the old days, his events were attended mostly by RX-7 and Porsche owners (Todd's owned both). Now you typically see cars that are only a few years old-- lots of 993s, 996s, and Boxters, plenty of 3 series Bimmers, S2000s, Audis, Vipers, Vettes, etc. Not too many RX-7s anymore-- hey Mazda, WAKE UP AND BUILD A NEW RX-7 THAT I CAN TAKE TO THE TRACK!!

I've also been to one Speed Ventures event at Buttonwillow. Popular with the S2000 guys, but there was a nice mix of other makes as well. It was less expensive than a TracQuest event, but they weren't providing food or instructors as part of the base price (you could get an instructor for an extra charge). Seemed to be pretty well run, and I would go again. See SpeedVentures.net for info. Also, fluxen (on the Forum) is an FD owner, and I believe one of the owners of Speed Ventures. Hopefully, he'll see this thread and chime in.

Aside from price, one significant difference is that SpeedVentures offers transponder-based (not Hot Lap) timing, and TracQuest doesn't. I believe this is a philosophical difference in the way the two groups are run. I think that Todd (TracQuest) believes that timing may entice students into pushing harder than they should, while SpeedVentures believes that people are interested in measuring their improvement, and therefore want the option of timing. SpeedVentures also compiles timing at each event and has car classifications so that timed participants can see how they did against similarly classed vehicles.

I won't go into insurance issues, other than to say you should carefully review your policy before you go to any of these events, whether they are called HDPE or otherwise. Don't rely on what some guy on the Web heard about some other guy who knew a guy that rolled his Viper at some track and XYZ insurance did or didn't cover it. The Viper guy's insurance has nothing to do with *your* insurance.

artowar,

Excellent post! Because I have lots of seat time in my Rx7 at Mid Ohio, Todd graciously invited me to instruct for his group at his August 13/14 Mid Ohio DE/Lapping event. I have to admit, the passing rules are more liberal than I'm used to, but I'm confident there won't be any sheet metal bent at his event...I'll see to that WITH MY STUDENT:)

I've checked time and again with my insurer, State Farm, and each time they state that if the event is not timed, or a non-competitive, my car and I are BOTH COVERED at performance drivers education events.

I wonder how State Farm would view the way Speed Ventures runs their event. I've often thought of doing the same thing with my Motorsports Driving Club events at Putnam Park, but most of my participants get nervous driving their street cars on track, and hot lap timers begin monitoring their laptimes:)

Greetings RX-7 Gang!

Someone sent me a link to this thread and I figured I'd say hi. Todd Serota here. I know that I know some of you, as you have attended my TracQuest DE events (or, in the case of SleepR1, is about to at Mid-Ohio in August), but I may know others as well, since I owned a '93 R1 from 1993 to 1996 and was very active on the RX-7 Net list serve.

Since I have a lot of familiarity with the issue, I primarily wanted to comment on the insurance part of this thread. Many people have questions about insurance coverage at DE events, and all kinds of opinions fly around on the Internet. It's important for people to know where they stand. Understand, though, that I'm not offering legal advice here - just a personal opinion.

Generally speaking, events are covered unless they're excluded. Most auto policies exclude racing and competiton events and preparation for such events. A normal DE event doesn't fall into either category since there is no official timing by the promoter, and certainly no wheel-to-wheel racing. Under these policies, DE's should be covered, and almost always have been in the instances around the country with which I'm familiar. However, remember that any company can deny coverage, and some insurance companies are very nasty, denying coverage in a variety of situations until they are forced to honor their obligation. Thus, just because you should have coverage, and may ultimately wind up having coverage if you have to sue the insurance company, that doesn't mean every insurance company will immediately step up to the plate and pay your claim.

So, if you want to assess the probability that you are covered when you go to a track event, look at what is happening there. No racing or timing by the promoter? Odds are very good for coverage. Official timing by the promoter with transponders, etc.? A much greater chance of an insurance company refusing to pay and sticking with it.

There's more, though. Recently, one company changed its policy to exclude any activity that occurs on a circuit designed for racing. That would pretty clearly seem to exclude even normal DE events. The company is Allstate, and many Allstate policy holders I know who track their cars have switched to another company. Further, one of my participants contacted his carrier, State Farm, to ask if he was covered at a DE event and State Farm told him that they would be sending him an exclusion upon his renewal, which is happening in the next few weeks. This may mean that State Farm is following in the footsteps of Allstate. If it becomes a trend, it's certainly not a good thing for the good guys.

However, I'm looking into hooking up with a specialty insurance company to make available specific DE coverage on a per event basis. It would be available from them - I would only be responsible for leading people to it. We'll see how it goes.

Finally, I note that for you West Coast folks, the next TracQuest even is on the big track at Willow Springs on the weekend of August 3-4. Willow isn't called the Fastest Road in the West for nothing: it has some of the highest speed corners in the country. Turn 8 is a 125+ mph non-banked sweeper in a stock 3rd gen, followed by Turn 9, a decreasing radius 95+ mph turn. Anyone who is interested can get more info on the TracQuest web site at www.tracquest.com.

If anyone has any questions about any of this, feel free to post a response here or email me at tserota@tracquest.com

One other thing I forgot to mention about TracQuest events: Todd always manages to get great food for the events.

But you say, "artowar2, I don't care about food-- I'm there to drive! I am an ironman, and I can drive all day just eating the bugs that fly into the front of my helmet!!"

Yeah right. Believe me, the time between sessions is crucial to maintaining both your car and yourself. Eating food from the track cafeteria or roach coach, or maybe shoving another Snickers bar down your throat just doesn't cut it. It's a welcome and needed break to get some decent food, and to stay hydrated with proper fluids. Todd makes sure both are available. Keeping your mind & body sharp are what enable you to learn faster at these events.

TracQuest
 

Sounds like Todd is "the man"...I'm looking forward to instructing at Todd's Mid Ohio August 13/14 DE/Lapping event:)

Also interested in that DE insurance, if State Farm decides to exclude any driving on a road course circuit...as of a few months ago, my track driving is under full collision coverage...

artowar2,

Now you didn't tell Todd to flog my car at Mid Ohio did you?;)

Well this is not a drivers ed class but I gess it fits under lapping. It is open track nights at Gingerman in South Haven, MI. Last year it was on Wedneday nights ( I heard they expanded it to more nights this year ) $50 sign the waiver and you are good to go. Usually is from 4 p.m. or so until dark. I learned alot just pushing the car and trying to keep up with the fast guys.

Man, that's a good deal on track time...I wish I can get that deal at Putnam Park...

Just saw Todd last weekend at a Land Rover offroad event (now that was a different kind of fun :)

Heh, if you let him drive, just remember to have him leave it running when you get back to the paddock-- he hasn't owned a turbo car since his old R1...

Oh yeah, make sure that catch can is working :)

Jim, Actually I'm having the catch can removed, and going back to the stock setup. Mid Ohio was never really a problem with oil spray, only Putnam Park...

The leaking filler neck gasket, rear main seal, oil cooler lines and oil pan gaskets have all finally been replaced, so the Rx7 R1 shouldn't be leaving anymore puddles:)

I'm having all the catch can parts put in a box...next Friday, so they'd be available for sale...:)

But Manny, why take it out? Won't you still have the problem when you get to a track with some nice high-g right handers?

Jim,

Actually, I've never really had a problem with oil sprayage until recently. I suspect the failed filler neck gasket, in comination with the other leaking seals (oil cooler line, oil pan, oil filter O-ring, and rear main seals) were all contributing to the oil sprayage. Now that all those have been replaced, I'm certain the oil catch bottle won't be needed.

Besides the catch bottle got to be a PITA, because I was limited to 20 minute lapping sessions...the little 1-pt bottle fills QUICKLY, and if I didn't empty the bottle, the oil catch bottle overflow would make a real mess!

Hey Manny, how was Mid-Ohio? I didn't see any updates at Tracquest.com or here. Always love to hear track stories...

Has anyone on the forum gone to Summit Point Raceway in WV? http://www.summitpoint-raceway.com/

I'm curious about Friday at the Track and the other driver's events.

artowar2,

Todd's Mid Ohio event was a blast. Gobs of track time! As an instructor, I thoroughly enjoyed passing anywhere on the track:) TracQuest's open track events are as good as everyone on the left coast says they are:) Todd plans to invite me back to instruct at his October 7/8 Mid Ohio event. I've burned up my vacation days, so I'll probably be "sick" Mon/Tues Oct 7/8, recuperating at Mid Ohio;)

rotary-tt,

I've done the Summit Point full course back in April of '99 for the Spring MADS event. Fun track. A bit bumpy. The "S'es", and the "Chute" are favorite turns. BTW, in a healthy FD Rx7, you'll do 140 mph into the increasing radius turn that is Summit Point's Turn 1, IF you come out of Turn 10 REALLY WELL:)

Hey, that's great that you enjoyed the event. Those are Todd's standard passing rules and from what I can tell they work fine. When I've seen people go-off at an event, it usually has nothing to do with the passing rules anyway...

I think someone got a picture of your car. Go to the message forum at Tracquest.com, look for the guy that posted Mid-Ohio pix, and check out his webpage-- wait, a minute, here's the link:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/kilsen/MidOhio.html

sixth row, third column-- is that you?

FATT
 

Fridays at the track at Summit Point are worth going to. Its pretty laid back with 3 passing zones. The track is lots of fun but not the safest. You get 4 sessions that are 20 minutes each with instructors if desired ( sometimes required depending on the group) and two class room sessions. And you can go to the skid pad to practice your oversteering and understeering as well as your spins :)

So Manny, you took it out? I guess I am the only one left with the Pauly Special. Unfortunately, with all the trouble I have had this year, I haven't had much time to worry about the catch bottle.

Hopefully all will be better soon. I have Putnam twice, Mid Ohio and Watkins Glenn on my schedule before the year is out.



I need to get those new turbo's and ported motor out for a real spin!!!!!!

artowar2,

No that's Jim Phend's red FD. I had SSR Comps on my car, but the pic shows an FD with stock wheels. There was another red FD owner that came along with Jim and me, and that was Charlie Williams. Charlie's FD has BBS mesh wheels with gold centers. We were the ONLY 3 red FD Rx7s at the TracQuest Mid Ohio event. There was also a red 2nd Gen '86 NA that belonged to Jack Cruse. I had two student cars. Charlie's red FD, and Jack's red FC...:)

borch,

Yes, I had Shane remove the catch bottle. No sprayage on the engine during Mid Ohio and Putnam Park. Very slight oil moisture up front near the radiator at last Friday night's Putnam Park event. I can only guess the oil's coming from the one oil cooler line Paul didn't replace (and did not appear to be leaking at the time he did the diagnosis). Oil leaks are like playing the squashing molls game...you smack one down, another one appears:) During normal daily driving my FD Rx7 is DRY though, and that's what matters. FWIW, Putnam Park is really much harder on my FD than Mid Ohio has ever been. Putnam is so fast, and you're cornering all the time. Mid Ohio has a fewer long turns, and has more left handers, and switchbacks (the Ses down through "Thunder Valley").

TracQuest Mid Ohio Pic
 

artowar2,

Here's a pic of our paddock "campsite" at Mid Ohio during the TracQuest event August 13/14 (just last week I guess?).

The pic is courtesy of Charlie Williams

Pic?

Bigger Pic
 

Resized to 70% reduction to make the byte limit:)

Yeah 70% works:)
 

70% makes the byte cut-off:)

My car's on the far left, car number I-73 (with Hoosier bumper decal). I'm on the far right with white long-sleeve shirt and red sparco racing shoes (I'm starting my logbook appropriately titled, "The Red Shoe Diaries"):)

Nice pix Manny. Looks like you guys had a comfy setup!

yeah, this is the ONLY way I'll do an "away" driver's ed now...:)