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^ The General is Will, driving the black & red PTD Miata #77. Seen his car in Mike Haag's shop often.
http://www.gotbluemilk.com/web120212...s/image29.html |
Originally Posted by wlfpkrcn
(Post 10991878)
What was your dyno reclassified wt/HP? What is your diff ratio? Are you going to be at the march event?
178 rwhp / 2801 lbs. --> PTE** Diff ratio is 5.125. |
I am looking at running my FC in a NASA race weekend or 2 this year. I have gone through the points system and it looks like I am going to be in PTC with the car. This is my points schedule;
Race Weight - 2650 lbs RWHP - 220 Prep Points +10 - R Compounds - 1 - Running 225x45x15 + 3 - Aftermarket ECU's + 2 - Non OEM Intake Manifold + 1 - Replacement Pulleys + 2 - Header + 2 - Exhaust + 10 - External Reservoir Shocks + 2 - Replaced Anti Roll Bars + 2 - Bump Steer Kit + 1 - Lower Stress Brace + 1 - Strut Bar + 3 - Replaced Front Fascia + 4 - Add Rear Wing 44 Points How tough is this class and if I am looking at doing a few races in the Ohio area, what type of competition am I looking at in class? Eric |
Originally Posted by 23Racer
(Post 10992492)
I am looking at running my FC in a NASA race weekend or 2 this year. I have gone through the points system and it looks like I am going to be in PTC with the car. This is my points schedule;
Race Weight - 2650 lbs RWHP - 220 Prep Points +10 - R Compounds - 1 - Running 225x45x15 + 3 - Aftermarket ECU's + 2 - Non OEM Intake Manifold + 1 - Replacement Pulleys + 2 - Header + 2 - Exhaust + 10 - External Reservoir Shocks + 2 - Replaced Anti Roll Bars + 2 - Bump Steer Kit + 1 - Lower Stress Brace + 1 - Strut Bar + 3 - Replaced Front Fascia + 4 - Add Rear Wing 44 Points How tough is this class and if I am looking at doing a few races in the Ohio area, what type of competition am I looking at in class? Eric Is your car dyno reclassed or based on points? If you are a dyno reclass you do not need to take these points + 3 - Aftermarket ECU's + 2 - Non OEM Intake Manifold + 1 - Replacement Pulleys + 2 - Header + 2 - Exhaust If you are classed on points, you need to add 11 points for your 150# weight reduction |
Originally Posted by wlfpkrcn
(Post 10992715)
Is your car dyno reclassed or based on points?
If you are a dyno reclass you do not need to take these points + 3 - Aftermarket ECU's + 2 - Non OEM Intake Manifold + 1 - Replacement Pulleys + 2 - Header + 2 - Exhaust If you are classed on points, you need to add 11 points for your 150# weight reduction Taking a look at the mods I have done to my car, plus the weight and whp, what class do you think I should be in? I have never done this kind of stuff with NASA before, so I am kinda green at it. There is no place to run my car in SCCA, so if I am going to bring it into the U.S. to run, NASA is the home for it. I don't even want to tell you guys all the issues I am having in getting a class to run my ex-WC Cougar in at an SCCA event. Can you believe disconnecting a bunch of stuff and adding over 375 lbs to the car, WTF????? Thanks, Eric |
According to the maximum adjusted PtW ratio rule, at 2650 pounds with 245 or narrower tires, you can make at most 189 hp in PTD with an FC. You're ok in PTC which allows 225 hp in this case.
I think wlfpkrcn is saying you would save 10+11 = 21 mod points if you dyno reclass (or your 44 - 10), leaving 34). If you have non-stock porting, you'll probably need to get a dyno reclass. In either case, you might end up in PTC anyway..... Another consideration is how many PTC cars will the field have in your planned events (i.e., so you have someone to race against)? There were no PTC cars during the first event in NorCal, but maybe later on in the year we'll see more PT cars in all classes, it just depends. Yep, SCCA is a bit more restrictive. I'm still trying to hunt down some fenders and wheels so I can be ITS-legal instead of running in ITE. |
Originally Posted by 088
(Post 10993058)
According to the maximum adjusted PtW ratio rule, at 2650 pounds with 245 or narrower tires, you can make at most 189 hp in PTD with an FC. You're ok in PTC which allows 225 hp in this case.
I think wlfpkrcn is saying you would save 10+11 = 21 mod points if you dyno reclass (or your 44 - 10), leaving 34). If you have non-stock porting, you'll probably need to get a dyno reclass. In either case, you might end up in PTC anyway..... Another consideration is how many PTC cars will the field have in your planned events (i.e., so you have someone to race against)? There were no PTC cars during the first event in NorCal, but maybe later on in the year we'll see more PT cars in all classes, it just depends. Yep, SCCA is a bit more restrictive. I'm still trying to hunt down some fenders and wheels so I can be ITS-legal instead of running in ITE. Mostly, I just want to race the car at Mid Ohio and NASA looks to be the best bet at this time. Eric |
http://www.nasaproracing.com/rules/p...ring_rules.pdf
Increased number of camshafts, non-BTM (non-stock) head(s)/hybrids, port modified rotary engines, and non-BTM/upgraded/modified turbo or superchargers: engine swap rules with Dyno testing apply—must be evaluated by the National PT Director for re- classification. (see section 5.4 Dyno Re-classing and Testing Procedures) All OEM/BTM naturally aspirated vehicles that have been upgraded to forced induction and forced induction vehicles with an upgraded or modified turbo or supercharger must be evaluated by the National PT Director on an individual basis for new base classification based on chassis dynamometer testing and actual vehicle weight as in C.1) above and in Section 5.4 Dyno Re- classing. After re-classification, modification points will not be assessed for weight reduction or engine. However, if the power output of the vehicle is later increased, the participant will have to get the vehicle re-classified again. Contact Greg for a dyno reclass greg@nasa-tt.com |
Originally Posted by wlfpkrcn
(Post 10996028)
http://www.nasaproracing.com/rules/p...ring_rules.pdf
Increased number of camshafts, non-BTM (non-stock) head(s)/hybrids, port modified rotary engines, and non-BTM/upgraded/modified turbo or superchargers: engine swap rules with Dyno testing apply—must be evaluated by the National PT Director for re- classification. (see section 5.4 Dyno Re-classing and Testing Procedures) All OEM/BTM naturally aspirated vehicles that have been upgraded to forced induction and forced induction vehicles with an upgraded or modified turbo or supercharger must be evaluated by the National PT Director on an individual basis for new base classification based on chassis dynamometer testing and actual vehicle weight as in C.1) above and in Section 5.4 Dyno Re- classing. After re-classification, modification points will not be assessed for weight reduction or engine. However, if the power output of the vehicle is later increased, the participant will have to get the vehicle re-classified again. Contact Greg for a dyno reclass greg@nasa-tt.com I appreciate the help. Eric |
Typically a dyno Reclass for the FC costs you 100lbs of weight vs just mods being chalked up to points. Of course if you have any porting work done at all you have no choice. But, without porting work i have found it is more advantageous for a rotary to just take points for intake and exhaust mods because for the rotary the benefit of a fully tuned race exhaust gives you more HP that NASA usually anticipates with other cars (read more speed for the points).
The key in NASA is to tune the car (port timing, spark timing, fuel trim, etc) such that it has a flat powerband in the RPM range you use. Easier said than done on a non-turbo rotary. That's why forced induction reclassed cars rule PT. Because the reclass is solely based on peak HP. If it were more fairly based on area under the power curve in useful RPM range or by peak torque too it would be more fair for us rotor heads. Eventually they may come up with a system that uses GPS/accel data and limit it by that...but for now its only used as a secondary means of compliance with max power min weight.. |
Wlfpkrcn, what happened to you guys? I drove up around noonish Sunday and didn't see the car anywhere.....
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It's a long story :(
There car was out running in HPDE on Saturday. We called off running the enduro late Saturday night. Part of it was not following the 6 P's- Proper Preparation Prevents Piss Poor Performance! Part of it was teething gremlins. We could have worked around the gremlins.... |
too bad..... with four entries in E2, of which one DNF'd, you would have had a chance at the podium. :D
I counted 75 cars in HPDE4 on Saturday. Holy traffic, batman! |
Originally Posted by 088
(Post 11014741)
too bad..... with four entries in E2, of which one DNF'd, you would have had a chance at the podium. :D
I counted 75 cars in HPDE4 on Saturday. Holy traffic, batman! Would have been fun to race. We were looking forward to it |
Originally Posted by 088
(Post 11014741)
too bad..... With four entries in e2, of which one dnf'd, you would have had a chance at the podium. :d
i counted 75 cars in hpde4 on saturday. Holy traffic, batman! daaymn! |
Does anyone have pics of a FC rear suspension or at a shop where pis could be taken? Our car is on a dolly until I finish rebuilding the shocks, and I can't get the car high enough to get the pics I need. I need the pics for a conversation I have been having with Greg. Hopefully the end result will be beneficial for all FC's. PM me for details if you can get me some pics
E |
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I need a picture that shows "Center Link" that runs vertically to the Chassis.
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Has anyone tried running 205's on a FC?
We are currently using 225's (10pt Continentals) on 15x7 wheels. I have been looking into wheel widths vs tire width. It looks like a 225 needs a 9" wheel to maximize the tire. I think the fast Miatas are running 8"(?) wheels with 205's. I figure a 205 on a 15x7 is closer to maximized than a 225. Also the 205 is a huge point savings. Points wise we are in limbo land. With a dyno reclass we are taking 18 points plus tires. I would love the power to weight of a PTD reclass but could only do it on 205's (we could use 7 or 10 pt tire). Otherwise we are looking at a E** reclass if running the 225 (7 point tires) |
we noticed that the 225-45-15 hoosiers are almost an inch wider than a 225-45-15 hankook, so yeah a 205 hoosier is better on a 7" wheel, and 225 is better on an 8" wheel....
cause a 225-45-15 hoosier is like a 245-45-15 in any other brand. so it might actually be worth doing, saves you points, and its a more optimal fit on the wheel. you'd be the only guy on 205's in PTD though... |
Originally Posted by j9fd3s
(Post 11060756)
we noticed that the 225-45-15 hoosiers are almost an inch wider than a 225-45-15 hankook, so yeah a 205 hoosier is better on a 7" wheel, and 225 is better on an 8" wheel....
cause a 225-45-15 hoosier is like a 245-45-15 in any other brand. so it might actually be worth doing, saves you points, and its a more optimal fit on the wheel. you'd be the only guy on 205's in PTD though... I was going to try the 205/50-15 Hoosier on my 15x7 wheels for my next tire purchase. Only reason is to run the Hoosier SM6 tire that is way cheaper than regular R6. Approximately $230 for a R6 vs. about $160 for a SM6. So it's possible to save points and save money at the same time????? |
Hmmmm interesting info guys. Thanks! We are leaning towards staying with 225's
Next question. Does anyone make 15x8 or 15x9 wheels for these cars at a reasonable price? What offset to fit an 8 or 9" wheel under stock sheet metal? I can have wheels made from a circle track supplier. Should we bump up to a 16"/17" wheel when we run out of 15" Continentals? If we jump up in rim size, any recommendations for wheels? |
we're slowly building a TTC car (i think, it might be TTB), and paul wants to run 18's, if you're limited to width, you can go bigger in diameter....
the only problem is gearing, 18's are big! it's also weird that finding wheels in 5x114.3 is so hard, but it is, if you want a "weird" size like 15x8... |
If anybody is using rear camber adjuster on their second gen and claiming 0 point "simple camber adjustment" Greg has made an official ruling after 2 months of emails. I think I have a 0 point solution I will start working on it next week.
Ok, the NASA Exec's have weighed in, and we all agree that unless there are subsequent changes in the rules regarding these parts, here is the bottom line as of 4-27-12. 1) The center "control link" functions as a sub-frame brace and sub-frame mount. You can modify (replace) this brace for the +3 points under rule 5.3.F.4) Add or modify other chassis stiffening devices or fabricated parts (such as lower strut braces or lower arm braces (with greater than two attachment points), subframe connectors, subframe braces, subframe mounts/bushings, etc) +3 Slotting the chassis bolt holes for this link would have the same effect, so would take the same +3 point assessment. It would not be considered an alteration of suspension mounting points, but would be, as stated above, considered a modification of a subframe mount. If this +3 points assessment is taken, then the other aspects of this rule can also be taken advantage of (more chassis stiffening devices, etc). 2) The "outside" links that connect the subframe to the trailing arms are considered either part of the subframe suspension mounting points, or are considered part of the trailing arms, whichever will be to the benefit of the competitor. Modifying or replacing them will result in either a +6 point assessment for relocation of suspension mounting points (5.3.E.17), or a +4 point assessment for control arm modification (5.3.E.9). If there are spherical joints involved in the upgrade, then the additional +3 point assessment under rule 5.3.E.24) applies. If the competitor is already taking points for either 5.3.E.17) or 5.3.E.9) for other modifications, then there would be no additional assessment for replacing these links. If neither of those assessments is already taken, then replacing these links would result in the lower +4 point assessment for control arm modification (5.3.E.9). As well, all control arms on the vehicle could them be modified without additional assessment. 3) Slotting of the bolt holes in the trailing arm that the "outside" links use to connect the trailing arms to the subframe are permitted under the No-Points assessment within rule 5.3.E.9)--with or without the use of eccentric bolts or bushings. Please feel free to print out this e-mail and keep a copy with the vehicle log book and with the PT Car Classification Form for future reference in the event of a tech inspection or protest. |
Just ran a 4 hour Enduro yesterday at Thunderhill
I'll try to make a long story short. The enduro was supposed to start at 8:10 yesterday morning. We did not run on Saturday. I drove warm up (10 minutes of FCY, so no laps at speed) and first stint. My goal was to get laps under my belt and keep it clean and then pick up the speed. I wasn't feeling super racy, but passed a handful in the first few turns. Cars were all over the place bouncing off each other. So much for laying back and getting acclimated. I watched a bunch cars bang off of each other until we got out of turn 6. There was a Touring Car race that was running during our event. I tried to stay out of their way. Approx 1 hour in I got a mechanical black flag. Came into the pits and was informed we had a sound violation (105db and limit 103). We redirected the exhaust tip and my brother in law climbed in. He went out and got a mechanical black flag again for sound (ultimately we guessed wrong and shot the exhaust AT the sound meter). We had a Supertrapp and put that on the muffler. He went out and it wouldn't rev and came back. We put on more baffles. The car was quiet now but slow from the exhaust restrictions. We decided to keep motoring. He got another mechanical black flag when the exhaust hangers melted and exhaust was dragging due to heat from the backpressure in the exhaust. He came in and we bailing wired the exhaust on. Installed the diverter in the proper direction and sent him out. Things were going ok. Pulled him in for fuel. Noticed the diverter was missing. Then my father in law spilled a cup or so of gas and we got a 5 minute penalty. With approx 40 minutes left he radioed in he wanted me to finish the race. I climbed in and noticed a raw fuel odor. Drove for a couple laps and came in. Found the fuel tank vent ball valve stuck open and spitting fuel. Removed it and finished the last couple laps and saw the checker. The race ended up being 3 hours 43 minutes. We had 82 minutes off the track including mechanical repairs and the penalty. The other cars in our class had mechanical issues as well. We finished 18 laps down to winner and 6 laps to second place. Had we guessed right on the exhaust diverter the first time we would have won. Thats the way it goes. We had a blast minus the working during the race. Car drove well, and i felt comfortable. It has a bit to much understeer. I never really put in a proper flying lap. I did have a "moment" over the bypass. That was really the only place the car felt uncomfortable. Our fast lap was approx 1 second faster than the second place car and 1 second slower than first. We are in the right ballpark. Just need to iron out the details. All in all a decent day/ learning experience E A pic of me and gkmccready (red Miata #4) in turn 3 on the first lap http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/a...r/stuff083.jpg Exhaust dragging http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/a...r/stuff255.jpg http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/a...-21_130720.jpg |
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