How much should a tuner get?
 

Hey this is kind of an all purpose question who have had their power FC tuned.

Is 400-500 about right to pay a respected rotary tuner to create power FC mafs on a dyno? No hardcore tuning, just base with regular bolt on mods.

Thanks.

Does that include the dyno time? how about any (practical) street tuning?

K

Yes.

Tt goes on the dyno, before, and of course during tuning.

His regular tests include idle, and a few wot runs on the street.

You have no control over what the tuner gets, other than not going to that tuner. If tuner 'DOUG' is asking for $500, and tuner 'TONY' is asking for $250, with the same "tuning", the only thing you have control over is where you spend the money.

Isn't the question really:
Q1 "What is a good price for a good tune?" Which is then followed with

Q2 "What is considered a good tune?"

A1: It's a range based on time and what you get. I would say $150+, with some split/ignition tuning and dyno baseline taking you to around $300+. More based on additional requirements and time for the tune.

A2:
Rough tune: Get a car to customer's target AFR's for boost situation. Gather data via REAL WORLD driving situations. Adjust fuel. Adjust correction factors to insure that AFR is safe across temperature ranges. Adjust and inspect map to remove any defects. Insure car is operating "normally" based on logged information. Provide a digital copy of first and last maps and log. Summarize what changes were made.

Fine tune: All the above and AFR targets are map wide, under boost and while crusing, all fuel adjustments are cell based and not range based. Tune for Maxmium RWHP, tweaking all parameters including leading and trailing ignition.

Tony. I got my Apexi Power FC "pre-tuned" for my new ported motor, Greddy 2-row FMIC, twin turbos, Denso pump, 1300 secondaries, intake. Dave Barninger loaded a map that has two boost settings, 0.75 Bar for low, and 0.85 Bar for high. AFRs are 11.9 for low, and 11.7 for high. Dave says the map is tune for up 1 Bar (14.5 psi)? After my 500-mile break-in I'd be very interested in your tuning service above :)

Okay, Manny. You in BUCKEYE-Ville this weekend? We can talk about it more...like limit boost to ZERO for some of those miles!

Yes, I'll be at Rx7 Store by 12 pm (target ETA).

Dave Barninger's Break-in Procedure for my new ported motor:

500 miles, 5 to 6 psi boost, 4500 to 5500 rpm.

Change oil.

Rock and roll at full boost after 500 miles.

He says babying a new motor with zero boost only makes the break-in worse for a new motor, as the apex seals need SOME pressure to seat properly. If there's little to no boost pressure, carbon deposits will build prematurely ruining the motor.

This is worthy of a new thread. Did Kyle tell what he did on his engine?

Nope

LIAR!!! I did so... :D

As recommended by Rob @ Pineapple.

to 100miles - No boost < 4000rpm
to 500miles - No boost < 5000rpm
to 1000miles - low boost 5 - 7psi < 6000rpm
> 1000 rock and roll

I was at the track @ 1250 running 15psi trapping 124Mph. :D

Once I hit 500miles and began getting into boost, I made sure to Wideband and started my road tuning from boostable mile 1 (knew my vaccuum map was safe).

K

I guess we'll have to do what our respective engine builders told us with break-in :)

Make sure mile 501 is in central Ohio.

Also, I don't know about you or Kyle, but when I have rebuild put in, I plan on it lasting as long as the original...but supporting more HP. That is what drives my own tuning efforts. The more I learn, the better I can reach that goal. Not slapping blinders on is the key.

This is why I had Dave do all the reliability mods in addition to the enlarged intake/exhaust ports. I didn't go with Rob @Pineapple because Rob doesn't do as many reliability mods as Dave Barninger does @KDR. Dave also tuned my PFC conservatively, but I'd still like to veryify his AFR maps with lambda wide-band O2 sensor. Mile 501 will be with you guys looking for a dyno tune :)

what does dave do that rob doesn't? that got me interested

For reliability Dave enlarges and polishes both the coolant AND oil passages for much better cooling and oiling capacity and efficiency. He pulls the the eccentric shaft plug to allow constant oil flow to the the eccentric shaft. Dowel pins (not sure what this is). Silicone o-ring gaskets. I think Rob does the eccentric shaft mod, but not much else. Currently I know of one Pineapple Racing motor with an oil leak...(won't say who's it is though...)...5 year warranty, but doesn't cover labor for motor to come out again...

Just to throw this back on topic a little.

The pricing is going to depend on who is tuning and where you are located. I rented a dyno and since I didnt need a tuner from that shop I got the dyno with wideband for $75 an hr. Then I paid Steve Kan a $275 flat fee for tuning it. We had a small group of people he was tuning. Remember he came all the way from Dallas, Tx to Birmingham, Al and the $275 covers his travel expenses. Obviously if you ship someone in your going to pay a little more.

In my case I actually broke even, I was on the dyno for 5.5 hrs and since I got $50 an hr off on the dyno that came to $275 off which is what I paid Steve so really using him didnt cost me any more. Now if it would only taken 2hrs I would have spent more....but it would be well worth it to have someone that actually knows what they are doing and has a good track record versus some guy at the shop that just acts like he knows what he's doing. There are a LOT of tuners that have a big ego cause they have a dyno at the shop, they wont admit they dont know shit about rotary so they just go to tuning on it and blow it up.

STEPHEN