SR20DET Swap
 

I don't mean to sound like a newb, but I'm seriously considering doing this swap into an n/a chassis. However, I have never seen this done in anything but a FD chassis and have many questions before I come to a final decision. First off, HAS anyone done it? If not, is there anyone around with enough technical knowledge to help me out, as far as tranny alignment, gauge cluster, etc.?
Now, you may be wondering why I want to do such a hurrendous thing to such a beatiful car, with such a profound, proverbial "soul." Simply put, it should blow up less, and take to mods just as well as a 13bt. It won't throw off the balance too much either.
Please, if you have nothing positive to add, do not post, I don't want this thread to go crazy and get locked. Thank you in advance, and hopefully I'll be able to get this thing rolling.
-Brian

Theres a thread about this somewhere in here. I think the swap would be almost as expensive as going 20B. I'm too lazy right now to look for the thread :p: Do a search for it in this section.

hehe, i've been searching all day long. to sum it up, Reted gets angry and says it's a bad idea, and nobody really gives any tech info.

As long as you have the money then its possible. I mean since the driveline is already RWD then it should be possible with a few modifications.

The SR20DET is a nice engine, but I think it makes more sense to put in a 13BT. I don't know that that either engine would be any more reliable than the other.

If you spend the money that the swap takes you would have one bad ass rx7. I don't know how much silvia's weigh, but I raced a guy that did an SR20DET S4 conversion to his 280 and it cost him close to $10000. With my intake and exhaust and only hitting about 7-8 psi he beat me in a 1/4 race with his rear bumper at my front, he was running 15psi.

snrub, true, it's much easier to throw in another 13b, but i don't want to deal with the reliability issues of a rotary. I'm not out the get huge power out of this thing, but enough so that i can have like 300+ reliable rwhp. i figure this is the only setup that's FR, besides a v8, that will work and not upset the car. rotaries are also louder and attract much more attention. i love the sound, believe me, but getting tickets left and right for noise violations isn't all that great.
i'm worried more about actual problems i will run into performing the swap. i don't want to cut the firewall or anything insane, but if i'm going to have problems with the oil pan and sway bar, or other things i'd like to know ahead of time.

Have you heard an TII before? They are quiet, mine is very quiet and I don't even have any cats. The turbo does a great job of changing the sound.

Anyways, sorry I don't have any specific tech help, but I don't think anyone will. If people have done it with FDs you know of, might want to check with them for problems they had.

But don't cut short on rotaries. They can be reliable if done right. A properly built, modded, tuned, and maintained rotary will last.

so if i want a quieter exhaust i should go turbo? :)

the only quiet ones i've heard have the rb exhaust and, from a personal point of view, don't want something that small. now, how many single exhaust, 3" turbo back TII's do you know of that are quiet and haven't lost an engine? It's not really about being quiet, I want a car that can scream, but not that much. it's also the security that i can throw on intake, downpipe, and exhaust without having to worry about losing a seal.

On an NA you can throw on all the bolt-ons you want and not have to worry about the engine if it was built properly and maintained well. With a TII you need to have the proper fuel mods, thats all. The key is starting with a good strong engine and knowing how to mod it right. Unlike how many people think, engines don't just blow because they feel like it.

Well, for starters the turbo model of any car is quiet. If the car he was talking about is an n/a then getting it to be quiet with a good exhaust and no cats is a challenge.

To the guy asking about the slivia engine. You can put a jet engine in your car if you have the money. There is no logical reason for you to spend the extra $ to get the same amount of hp as you would with a 13bt or even a 20b. Take it from someone that has raced nissans his whole life starting with datsuns. The silvia is a great engine. But so is the 13B, the only problem i have found with them is getting the seals not to leak. But once you put the "good ones" instead of the oem ones you should have no problems.

The thread is in the third gen section (why on gods green earth would someone swap it into a 3rd gen) Im not gonna start on that subject...grrr. -Gabe

I know what rx7s sound like man, lol. Theres a reason i asked about a TII, because NAs are loud when exhaust mods are done. Plain and simply its impossible to make them quick and quiet. He was saying he didn't want to put a 13bt in and that one of the reasons hes trying to get away from rotaries is because of how loud they are.

Oh :p

I remember reading some guy in Puerto Rico dropping a Grand National Engine into a 3rd gen. He was pulling low 12's and this was about 3-4 years ago..

Its a little more complicated than just throwing fuel at it :)

A straight exhaust TII WILL be loud. Shit, mine wasn't too quiet with an HKS catback.

id rather have a BT, or just get a 240sx chassis and a s13 front clip.

SR20's have upper engine oiling problems, i wouldn't touch one with a 20ft pole

dude, I hear ricky tran has some stolen Honda SR20DET motors in his shop! let's go check it out!

bahahaha! that line pissed me off more than anything else in that movie.

HWO-can you elaborate on this upper oiling problem? what can I do to fix it?

Guys, I have yet to sit down and plan this whole thing as far as costs and everything go, so I haven't come to a final decision yet. However, there's one thing I won't settle for, a n/a, the potential just isn't there, that's why I considered this swap. For the cost of buying a rebuilt 13BT, getting it installed, and cleaning up the rest of the TII body that's most likely beatup anyways, I could buy a decent GXL (which are much easier to find), swap the engine, and have a unique, decently fast, semi-quiet silvia7thingy. I'm also partial to cars that are unique, that's why I like rx7's so much, however, this takes it one step further, and drives me nuts. Besides, this thing will get tons, and tons of attention (probably good and bad).

3isacharm: I'm no expert on the SR20DET (or the 13BT for that matter), but it doesn't strike me as able to put out a substantially different amount of power, more reliably. (the '99+ probaby does) What do you think is so unreliable about the 13BT? The cost would not appear to justify what your looking for, if you can even get it.

I'm not trying to be a rotary moralists, but make sure this is going to be as benificial as you think it'll be. :)

A good exhaust does not have to be noisy to have performance, albeit rotaries are louder.

why why oh why would you swap an engine of equivalent power and potential into a rx

Well let me say, I don't like the idea, but i'm on the same level that you are. I like to be different, but at the same time, I also like to have it built quality. I won't tell you to go rotary, but if your looking for more reliabilty/power take this into consideration. A rotary engine has basically 10 parts to it. 5 which are moving. the typical 4 boinger has 89 parts to it 85 which move as detailed in the following link:
Rotary vs piston

Plus there are more reliable seals available for the rotary now. as detailed in this link:
Hurley

You are more financially and just overall most likely better to go with a 13BT, This way you will not need to buy a new EMS to control your engine. I would just say buy a 13BT motor, street port it and buy some hurley seals and your motor will be extremely reliable.

right now, this is just an idea me and a buddy came up with. the sr20 also produces decent torque, for the s13 it's almost equal to the hp. I know it's a strong engine and can handle plenty of boost. I've heard of these things take 20+psi on a stock bottom end and live. Now, I don't plan on doing that myself, but it would take much more work to get a rotary up to that level. I'd also feel safer throwing say a 50shot for shits and giggles on it than a 13b. also, like i said before, it will be one of a kind.

oh yeah, it's either this or maybe an evo conversion. which one would you rather have?

True it can with stand a good amount of boost, but think about it. Like i said before, the rotary is much simpler. To modify a piston engine think of what you have to upgrade: pistons,crankshaft, connecting rods, valves, cams, cam gears, port and polishing, fuel, exhaust etc.... I like to think about a rotary having about 5 things that you can modify: Intake, Turbo, Exhaust, Fuel, and porting. You really don't need to modify the ignition because its already extremely efficient. Fuel you need injectors,and a fuel pump. throw an intake on, upgrade the turbo, put an exhaust on (which will net you 60+ hp dyno proven), and your pretty set to beat a lot of people out there.
But which ever route you choose i wish you good luck and i would be interested in seeing how it turns out.

the sr20det is a great motor! if you can do it, go for it but what about a 2JZ out of a markIV supra, haha now where cookin with gas. But they are really 2 great motors. I think you could get more power out of a 2JZ than the sr20. I think their about the same weight and same size overall, i could be wrong tho! Good luck none the less i hope to see it soon!

Same weight and overall size? Not even close! the SR20DET is a single T25 turbo 2.0L 4cyl and the 2JZ-GTE is a twin turbo 3.0L INLINE 6cyl. The 2JZ is a MASSIVE engine... much bigger and heavier than the SR20 by far! (sorry don't have numbers to confirm this though).

The power potential of the 2JZ is amazing though. How does 950 rwhp on stock internals sound?!?!

yeah, i think your assumptions on the similarities of those two engines is a little off. to begin with, the cost of the engine and tranny alone would be more than the whole sr20 swap. it would be awesome, but difficult and i definately can't afford it. the thing about the sr is, i don't have to modify the heads or internals, and i don't plan to. maybe when i'm going to put a bigger turbo on it then yeah, but the stock internals are strong enough. the crank is supposed to last up to 500hp. revin, you are right about a piston engine being more complicated and eventually it would cost more in parts. a guy here is going nuts on his 1.8t (now 2.0) golf and is having problems with his valves. he's rebuilt it about 3 times now.
thanks for all the support guys, hopefully i can pick up tons of hours this summer and get this thing rolling. it should be a learning experience! now, all i need is for someone to sell me their car. maybe i shouldn't mention the swap during the deal.....;)

I didn't read all the replys.

But, you figure $2700 for a red top shipped. Plus what ever you can get exhaust, motor mounts, FMIC, and some one to do the swap. It would be too much for a back yard mechanic, you will have to get a real shop for this. Sounds expensive.

I am a fan of the S13 SR20DET. THey are inexpensive and very reliable. And an exact swap, for the 240sx. I would like to see you do this swap. But it would be easier and cheaper to buy an S13 240 and go from there.

Good luck. Hope everything goes well.

You know somethign funny, On the NissanInfinityclub.net there are at least two guys wanting to try and put 13b's in an S13 and S14. You want to be in there world and they want in yours. HA! Thats funny.

hehe, yeah. i just joined up at a 240 forum, so i'll be picking their minds as well. they're nuts about the sr so i'm sure they'll like the idea. the reason i'm not doing a 240: it's easier to find a cheap rx7 chassis. i've seen many more go for 500 whereas 240's are a little more. as for the shop, i've got everything handled.

time to revive an old thread... i plan on getting rid of the current motor in my car by next spring and was looking into a piston swap, be it v8, sr20, rb25, 2jz, whatever the case may be, and since i have yet to find any good info about these for a 2nd gen chassis, i figured id light the fire once again. Yes, rotary is lovely and all, but i've owned 2 so far, and would love a nice japanese piston engine. i work at a shop so resources and fabrication of needed components is not really an issue. What im really after is any USEFUL information on motor dimensions or anyone who knows anything that could help, none of you "rotary > piston" queers. SO!! lets get some information flying :)

just to clarify, im looking for information mainly on sr20set and possibly rb25det... i already know what it would take for a v8 and would rather take a nissan over a yota

the sr20 isn't really that reliable. without internal mods and a lot of $$ the car will have reliability issues making that kind of power. my friends sr20 swap is less reliable than my 13b. its a good motor after you dump a lot into it. on top of dumping in $ for custom pieces for the swap in a 7 it will add up fast.

240's can be had for 1000, your going to spend any money you save on all the custom fab work that will have to be done. 240 is a direct drop in.

I saw a FC with an SR swap at Formula D two years ago in Atlanta. It had a Gumball 3000 sticker on it, I'm not 100% sure whos it was. Pretty clean swap tho.

Do it, have fun.

mines super quiet, never blew an engine. then again, i actually have a proper tune (go figure!). my exhaust is full 3" the whole way back, rb downpipe, borla straight through muffler, apex'i catback. all stainless, single exit, super quiet until about 3000 rpm. the turbo intake is WAYY louder than the exhaust.

also, the rotary can handle things like intakes and exhausts, but the ECU cant. however, with fuel upgrades and something like an rtek or SAFC or even better a full standalone, you can make crazy power on a stock engine. if you really think its going to be cheaper to do a full custom engine swap than upgrading the stock engine correctly, you're wrong.

did you try SR20forum.com. im sure you can find out a bit there. as much as i'd hate to admit it since that swap has become the new engine swap fad and is almost as popular as B-series swaps on hondas, i think it might be cool in an FC. i've seen one in an AE86. but hey good luck. i'd love to help more but i dont know much about piston engines because for the last 11 months ive done nothing but rotary work and before that my dad worked on my accord.

if it was cost effective (which its not) a 26b would be a bad ass swap... but that wont happen for a long time probably

REPENISHAT!


-Ted