New used 88 convertible starter issues
Hey everyone. First time post, and its a long one :) Just got my first car yesterday. All black 5speed 88 convertible with 132k on it. WITH NO BODY RUST :) paid 500. Has a blown coolant seal but I'm gonna try some alumaseal before a rebuild/replace motor. I was charging up the battery today and I finally got her to start and run. For about 5 seconds. Was running pretty rough (4-500 rpm) then she died. And the starter froze. But the starter was working just fine Before the engine started. Earlier tonight I smacked what I think is the solenoid a few Times and it turned over 1 revolution and froze back up. Battery was low again..... so, all the lights work, wipers, hazards ect. But that damn starter... I just want her to run so I can change the oil and flush the coolant system with water. Coolant prevents alumaseal from sticking. Even though it says compatible with all coolant.. weird. So anyone have any ideas to why the starter would abruptly stop working? And to clarify. Starter does get voltage. Sometimes 1 click. Sometimes constant clicks. Just no spinning.
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welcome to the board. :)
just a word of caution: i wouldn't condemn the starter until you sort the battery out. they can seem to quit working if they're not getting enough power and you have already shown the battery to be weakened. it's your property so i won't mention the Alumaseal issue .... (see what i did there? :)) |
check and make sure the motor aint locked up first
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Originally Posted by apsolus
(Post 11726863)
check and make sure the motor aint locked up first
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1. 19 mm socket
2. turn the main pulley clockwise by hand |
Originally Posted by diabolical1
(Post 11726828)
welcome to the board. :)
just a word of caution: i wouldn't condemn the starter until you sort the battery out. they can seem to quit working if they're not getting enough power and you have already shown the battery to be weakened. it's your property so i won't mention the Alumaseal issue .... (see what i did there? :)) |
knowledge? my "knowledge" does not extend beyond what i've read and seen in a few post-disassembly photos - probably some of the very same things you have read. i've seen cases where it worked for some people and extended their ability to drive the car without issue and i've seen cases where it did not work and they did not fare so well. personally, i've never used any of those "stop leak" products and i have no future intention to do either. however, it is a personal choice and you seem to have made yours. no worries.
your post makes it sound like you think i was referring to an actual documented issue with it, and for the record, i used the word "issue" in a much more general, and less ominous context. |
Originally Posted by diabolical1
(Post 11726907)
knowledge? my "knowledge" does not extend beyond what i've read and seen in a few post-disassembly photos - probably some of the very same things you have read. i've seen cases where it worked for some people and extended their ability to drive the car without issue and i've seen cases where it did not work and they did not fare so well. personally, i've never used any of those "stop leak" products and i have no future intention to do either. however, it is a personal choice and you seem to have made yours. no worries.
your post makes it sound like you think i was referring to an actual documented issue with it, and for the record, i used the word "issue" in a much more general, and less ominous context. |
Originally Posted by youmadbro?
(Post 11726391)
I'm gonna try some alumaseal
Originally Posted by youmadbro?
(Post 11726391)
So anyone have any ideas to why the starter would abruptly stop working?
Originally Posted by youmadbro?
(Post 11726913)
Oh ok, yeah I tried hand cranking it. Not even a budge. Is there a fix? Or do I need to swap engines?
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Originally Posted by Evil Aviator
(Post 11726916)
No! It will NOT seal the leak, and it junk-up your engine internals and lessen the cooling capability of your radiator.
If the engine itself is locked-up, then the starter will exhibit many of the symptoms that you have mentioned. Try turning the engine over by hand before you do screw with it any more. Better yet, don't screw with it at all, just rebuild it before you cause hundreds or thousands of dollars in unnecessary damage. Edit: Definitely don't screw with it any more. |
Originally Posted by youmadbro?
(Post 11726979)
To late. I GOT IT RUNNING :D pretty sure it was carbon lock. Turned it counter clockwise and it broke loose. Then back clockwise and it spun free. The damned thing runs!!!!!!!!! :)
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Originally Posted by youmadbro?
(Post 11726979)
To late. I GOT IT RUNNING :D
Originally Posted by youmadbro?
(Post 11726979)
pretty sure it was carbon lock.
Originally Posted by youmadbro?
(Post 11727042)
Gimme a break its my first car lol.
Originally Posted by youmadbro?
(Post 11727042)
But I need some ideas before it turns into a money pit
Anyway, here are some options: - Stop screwing with the engine and tear it down for rebuild to see what is wrong. LOL, just kidding, you will never do that because it won't cause any additional damage. - Perform a compression check to see if a seal is blown. This may cause additional damage when cranking the engine, so you may want to choose this option. - If you are a real noob, you will choose this final option. Go to your auto parts store and find something else in a can that you think will fix the engine. Once you apply the wonder-fluid, try as hard as you can to get the engine running, and continue to flog the engine as you have been doing. This will cause the most damage, ending up junking the entire engine. If you are really good, it will also junk the exhaust system and maybe some other components too. Bonus!
Originally Posted by diabolical1
(Post 11726907)
knowledge?
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Why is it most people on here have to be a prick? Look. I'm new to rotary engines. But hand me a 2 stroke dirt bike engine and I can rebuild it within a day. I'm not a complete noob, I learn as I go alright? You guys act like I killing something precious to the world. It's an engine for christ sake. A helpful gesture is one thing. But you don't have to be a duck about it
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^ no one is quacking so no one is being a duck
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Lol. Damn auto correct. I'm just gonna go get a Haynes repair manual, and grab an engine from the junkyard. Maybe I'll have better luck there. What year rx's engines are compatible?
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Originally Posted by youmadbro?
(Post 11727241)
Why is it most people on here have to be a prick? Look. I'm new to rotary engines. But hand me a 2 stroke dirt bike engine and I can rebuild it within a day. I'm not a complete noob, I learn as I go alright? You guys act like I killing something precious to the world. It's an engine for christ sake. A helpful gesture is one thing. But you don't have to be a duck about it
anyway ... you're right, of course. i guess it IS just an engine. i suppose it would be unreasonable to say consider it as important as life for the dead or condemned. i would imagine there are no rotor-heads here that would trade a human child for an engine - at least, i hope not. however, this is a gathering place for people united by rotary engines (for the most part) and it will usually be our advice to try to salvage/save as opposed to destroy and dispose. you realize that guys trying to dissuade you from using stop-leaks or buying a starter off-the-cuff, or trying make THIS engine work without a rebuild is essentially US TRYING TO HELP YOU, and save you time, money and unneeded grief, right? and therefore, by definition, whether it is with or without some joking around, we're neither dicks nor ducks (or any other form of poultry). :) it's not JUST about the engine. __________________________________ yes, get Haynes and/or the FSM (download for free). junkyard may work or you can find a local one for sale - maybe a part-out or something. however, if you're interested in doing it yourself, it may be worth your while to pull the broken one you already possess and see if any parts are salvageable; then form a plan: budget and rebuild or sell. |
Evil Aviator, keep in mind that this is the New Member RX-7 Technical section. Included below is the description for the sake of comprehension.
Post your first technical questions here, in an easy flame free environment, before jumping into the main technical sections. 1. Alumaseal or any other product with "amazing claims" (Wonder Fluid as Evil Aviator said), which I refer to as being in the Magic Goo Aisle at Autozone, they don't work. They make things go from bad to worse. In this case, by plugging your radiator and coolant passages with said product. 2. If the engine doesn't want to turn over with reasonable force, stop. Something is binding. This thread fleshes out what goes on in an engine that is seemingly carbon locked: https://www.rx7club.com/1st-gen-arch...rticle-281207/ Please note that after the penetrating oil is sprayed inside the spark plug holes, the engine is to be turned COUNTER-CLOCKWISE at the main pulley. Again, don't force it. Aaron Cake explains the mechanics of the "ATF Trick" in simple terms here: The "ATF Trick": The Real Truth But now that it is turning over, a Compression Test is the first thing you should do. This is the tell-all crystal ball of what your engine is doing on the inside. Here is the procedure: www.rotaryresurrection.com/2ndgen/tech_compression_check.html If it passes the Compression Test with three healthy pulses per rotor, then you have dodged the bullet and are VERY lucky. Evil Aviator described what occurs when an apex or side seal breaks as the fragments go ping-ponging all over. Here is the result of such, in bright vivid pictures: http://www.rotaryresurrection.com/2n...nt_damage.html 3. Before you purchase a Haynes Manual, I would highly recommend downloading the Factory Service Manual instead. It can be found in the Second Generation FAQ. As for the Haynes Manual, my opinion is that it is not accurate on certain items (omission of factory amps on GXL/Turbo models) and the FSM is the better choice. 4. I would recommend against buying a new starter at this point. Also, only use a Mazda one, because those from the parts store(s) simply aren't up to par. I encountered two such NEW starters from Autozone & Advance Auto Parts which would only crank at 70 RPM compared to my OE Mazda one spinning at 170 RPM in a back to back test. Diabolical1 is right about the forum enjoying some good-natured joking around and that we are here to help, which includes dissuading "fixes" which are known to be destructive. Overall, the greatest lesson of owning a RX-7 is that the shortcut to success is knowing there are no shortcuts. |
Yeah I think the engine was already screwed. The pictures of the blown coolant seal with the rust everywhere. The seal blew and the car sat for just over a year. I drained what was left of the coolant earlier and it was straight brown... sigh. So I found a junkyard that has a couple rx's. He said 400 outright for and engine or 350 for an exchange. What should I do?
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Originally Posted by youmadbro?
(Post 11727658)
Yeah I think the engine was already screwed. The pictures of the blown coolant seal with the rust everywhere. The seal blew and the car sat for just over a year. I drained what was left of the coolant earlier and it was straight brown... sigh. So I found a junkyard that has a couple rx's. He said 400 outright for and engine or 350 for an exchange. What should I do?
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Originally Posted by youmadbro?
(Post 11727336)
What year rx's engines are compatible?
You want this: Note the 1986-1988 intake manifold has a cylinder-thing on the driver's side, and the thermostat cover has a cap. Your current engine should look like this. http://www.tamparacing.com/forums/at...s-t-engine.jpg You don't want this because it is more trouble to swap: Note the 1989-1992 intake manifold has 2 big runners on the driver's side, and the thermostat cover does not have a cap. http://www.theburgers.net/89GTUs/Eng...closeuplft.jpg
Originally Posted by youmadbro?
(Post 11727658)
He said 400 outright for and engine or 350 for an exchange. What should I do?
If you have the storage space, and you don't need the extra $50, then you should keep the original engine for spare parts. Even if the internals are complete junk, the alternator, flywheel, fuel injectors, and other external parts are worth more than $50. If you are lucky, many of the internals will still be usable.
Originally Posted by satch
(Post 11727674)
Might be wrong, but common sense would dictate you take the engine apart and see what damage you have and go from there.
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No warranty. It's straight out of one of the cars he has there. I'm gonna have to bring a compression tester and a battery and probably some gas with me. And see if any of them are good. I know I know DON'T FORCE THE ENGINE! Lol. I know spark plugs have different socket sizes. I know of 5/8 but what size does ngk use? And where the hell would I the apart one of these things? I live in the boonies and have 1 concrete slab that's 10'x10' do I need a specific engine stand or can I rig one. Take note that I'm a poor man and don't make much money. But should be getting a better job within the next couple weeks
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Originally Posted by youmadbro?
(Post 11727742)
No warranty.
http://www.rotaryresurrection.com/2ndgen/techmenu.html Another option is to remove your engine and ship it off for a rebuild. You will need a lot of expensive tools to properly rebuild the engine yourself, and it will be rather difficult for you to clearance the rotors, measure wear, and perform other technical tasks that typically require some training and/or experience. You can watch a rebuild video to see what is involved with rebuilding an engine so that you can decide if you want to attempt it yourself. Free: Rebuilding Rotary Engine Videos - The Wankel Motor http://www.aaroncake.net/76cosmo/ Buy: http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Books_videos.htm Mazdatrix Videos Atkins Rotary Video
Originally Posted by youmadbro?
(Post 11727742)
I know spark plugs have different socket sizes. I know of 5/8 but what size does ngk use?
Mazdatrix - Spark Plugs
Originally Posted by youmadbro?
(Post 11727742)
And where the hell would I the apart one of these things? I live in the boonies and have 1 concrete slab that's 10'x10' do I need a specific engine stand or can I rig one.
Rotary Engine Stand Adaptor
Originally Posted by youmadbro?
(Post 11727742)
Take note that I'm a poor man and don't make much money. But should be getting a better job within the next couple weeks
Originally Posted by youmadbro?
(Post 11727793)
Lol
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Lamborghini haha yeah right. I'd rather have a 370z. So I went to the yard with the rxs today. Two were early 80s and had already been engine swiped. The 86 I found was in a front end collision and the engine was gone from that too. :l well what's the base price for a ship n build with the worse case scenario of bad damage. (Housings screwed new rotors needed) ect.?
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I will try to get my current engine out. God knows my idiot "friends" won't help me. Good people are so hard to come by nowadays....
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Originally Posted by youmadbro?
(Post 11728288)
well what's the base price for a ship n build with the worse case scenario of bad damage. (Housings screwed new rotors needed) ect.?
here is just ONE example of a rebuild kit (not an overhaul kit) an OEM kit is probably about twice that price. 86-88 N/A 13B Rx7 "Master" Rebuild Kit if it turns out that you can rebuild your engine, start local. check your local forum on the board and see if you can locate someone trustworthy. off the top of my head, i can't think of anyone in Michigan to recommend, but if you end up having to look out of state, there are a few guys in neighboring states (MN, OH, IL, IN, etc.) labor will vary from place to place, so it makes no sense for me to speculate. just shop around. one quick note though, you're better off spending a little more for a good reputation than you are saving a few hundred bucks on someone questionable. i just shipped a GM V6 from Wisconsin to Florida and all told it cost me about $200. a rotary is smaller and lighter, so i can't imagine shipping would be more than that. |
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