rhodges

I recently purchased a 1988 RX7 and it appears that someone tried to "hotwire" it.

Here is a list of strange things and possible issues:
1. Horn is always on if the battery is connected
2. A 4-6 gauge wire is connected directly from the hot side of the battery to the white wire with a red stripe.
3. Ignition switch and key detector are both broken

Here is what happens when we try to start the car:

When the wire connected directly to the battery is connected (red box - wiretobattery picture), you can depress the ignition switch with a flat tip screw driver and turn it to all the way to the start position. During the process, I can see the dash board light light up and the dashboard starts beeping. I have heard the fuel pump turn on the the car has even turned over once or twice.

When the wire connected directly to the battery is disconnected, nothing happens when I turn the ignition switch to ACC, On, and Start.

I have searched for where the key detection connector goes, but can not locate the female connector under the dashboard (looked for about 30 minutes with a flashlight). This adapter is shown in the wiretobattery picture with a blue box and in the keydetectionconnector picture.

The actual ignition switch is broken as well and can be seen in the red box in the ignitionswitch picture. I can depress the ignition switch and turn it to all the needed positions, but the car will not start and the horn will not go off.

I have thought about and will probably replace the ignition switch, but prior to doing so I have a few questions.

1. What is the proper way to reset the security system to have the horn turn off?
2. Are their any other things I should know about prior to replacing the ignition switch?
3. Should I be able to turn the switch to the on position as is and push/pull start the car?

Thanks in advance.

Quickshoeracer

You're saying that you can turn the ignition with a screwdriver? And you can get the pump to run, starter to turn over but not start-up?

That 4 AWG wire does not look pretty! So the red/white is 12V? And it bypasses the fuse box directly to +12V?! Can you find the other cut side of the red/white wire?

Do you have a service manual or wiring diagram? I wouldn't do anything else until I fixed the 12V supply to the ignition switch. Without fusebox protection, you could fry your car. My hope is that it hasn't already happened.

Rotary Alkymist

+1 to the above. Do you want it to work properly? I'd try and get it back to stock configuration before even connecting the battery.

lduley

iTrader: (1)

Foxed.ca will be your best friend, free FSMs

The fuel pump is NOT designed to run at all times, it only primes then shuts off until the MAF “flapper� gets sucked open, completing the circuit for the fuel pump

For it not rolling over when you turn the key, are you pressing the clutch down? If so, goto the clutch interlock switch and make sure it is working and/or was bypassed correctly

And yes, if you can turn the ignition with a screwdriver, replace it as you don’t know what else inside it may be broke

rhodges

Thanks for all the suggestions. Does anyone know what could make the horn be on non-stop when the battery is connected?

Quickshoeracer

I went to Foxed.ca - It looks like a great resource. Unfortunately, it appears to be having server problems...

rhodges

Yes
Yes, but the car won't constantly turn over...just did it one or two revolutions total.

Agreed!! I would believe so. Looks like it...not sure. White/Red intact just stripped, tapped, amd covered in medical tape. (Lol)

Not yet. Tend to agree. For sure. Totally agree.

Looked at the power block under the hood and don't see any thing popped. Horn stay on as soon as the battery is conected no matter the bypass state. Thanks again.

Quickshoeracer

Well, it's pretty hard to track this down without the wiring diagram. Do you have a multi-meter or continuity tester? Somebody on this forum must have a wiring diagram...

OK, so the bypass wire allows you to turn the starter. My concern is that we don't know which side of the ignition the red/white wire is. If it's on the battery side, then theres a broken connection between the ignition and the battery. If it's on the switched side, then we need to understand where that wire goes. Does it go to the ECM? The broken connection could be at the ignition switch or somewhere else in the chain. Is there an immobilizer?

When you say the horn is on, is it a steady horn (like the horn is stuck) or is it intermittent (like an alarm)?

If you just want to throw parts at it, then I would say the first course of action is to remove the 4 AWG cable and cover the stripped wire completely. Better yet, solder in a new section with shrink sleeve. Or just cut the exposed wire and solder back together with shrink sleeve. The important thing is that the wire be protected so there is no chance of it shorting to ground.

The second thing to do is replace the ignition switch. Replacing the switch might resolve your problem considering how damaged it is. If that doesn't work, then you'll have to determine whether the car has some sort of alarm or immobilizer. If you have a multimeter or voltmeter then you can track the +12V between the battery, ignition switch and starter.

What does it sound like when it does one or two revolutions? If it sounds strong but cuts early, then there's a bad connection somewhere - potentially a bad starter relay, starter ground or ignition contacts. If it sounds weak then it's likely the battery. Test the battery.

In summary, it sounds like there are a number of issues: potentially weak battery, clearly damaged ignition switch, and a break in the chain from the battery to the starter, either through the ignition switch, ECM, or immobilizer. Potentially a bad ground somewhere...

Rotary Alkymist

If you don't have a multimeter than you're gonna and you're gonna learn how to use it haha.

Things you must do:

DISCONNECT BATTERY NOW

Disconnect the horn for the love of god lol. It's the worst horn haha. I'm almost embarrassed to use it. Disconnect it for now rather.
Insulate it and you can test it with a multimeter when you do the wiring.

You have a G/O wire running from the horn switch in the steering wheel to the ECU. It could be grounded causing the horn to be on all the time. The relay is in the ECU. I doubt it's the issue. Your switch might have an issue. If the relay is stuck well you'll have to get used to that horn lol.
Again I doubt it's the ECU.

There is a chance that the G/R wire coming from F-04(ECU) is crossed with a live wire.

misterstyx69

iTrader: (142)

The horn circuit may be compromised at the Horn switch(steering wheel )..
OR the Flasher ECU ,which Contains the HORN Circuit can be damaged.

I just replaced a Flasher ECU as my horn had no power.,talk about weird..power everywhere except the horn.

By the way you can get a used switch with key for cheap.
The only thing is you will need the "other key" to open the door,etc.
Then again If you search for parts you can get a whole key set..doors,hatch,ignition for about 100 bucks used..(this route you have to take everything apart that has a lock on it and replace it.)

rhodges

Purchased a replacement ignition switch, but still no power.
Have tested the fuse block under the hood and all is well including each fuse.
Tested all wires going to the ignition switch, and only the White with red stripe is getting about 1 volt.
Disconnected the horn that was always on and it might be an alarm horn since it was the solo horn farthest from the radiator.
A little stumped, but will look at the wiring diagrams to see if the cars has a factory antitheft system that is preventing power from reaching the ignition switch.
Any assistance is greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance.

misterstyx69

iTrader: (142)

For ***** and giggles..put your key in the DR Door and lock/unlock..
I say this as it may be a security thing and be hindering starting the car(also why the horn maybe going off)

rhodges

I did something similar to lock and unlock last night but still no go.

rhodges

Ok. My issues are most definitely due to the anti-theft deterrent system. I spent a little time troubleshooting the issue with my multimeter last night and can report many interesting findings.

Things that work:
Headlights will turn on and off and will properly raise and lower
Emergency flashers will turn off and on
Brake Lights will turn on and off when the brake pedal is pressed
Both map lights will turn on and off
Dashboard lights will turn on when the headlights are on
Anti-Theft Horn is always on (until I pulled the plug that is)

Things that work at times:
The security light on the center console will light up when the door lock switches are activated

Things that do not work:
Ignition switch will not power up any pre-ignition items (fuel pump, engine diagnostics, etc.)
Radio will not power on (after market radio - looks to be a crappy install or someone tried to take it out)
Door locks - Both door locks have been removed
- I have access to the driver door lock switch as well as the door handle switch from outside the car
- I have access to the passenger door lock switch from the driver seat since the passenger door panel was removed prior to purchase
Dome Light - Will not work with door open nor door closed no matter how the switch is flipped
Hatchback light - Will not work when flipped to the on position
Windshield wipers - might require for the car to be on or running
Turn signals - might require the car to be on or running

Things are looking up at this point. If anyone knows the exact order of operations to disable the anti-theft deterrent system module that would be very helpful. I'm not sure if the radio situation is messing this up or if the door key switch situation is messing this up, but I do know that the anti-theft deterrent module is the man culprit in my situation.

Thanks in advance for any assistance you can provide.

misterstyx69

iTrader: (142)

The fuel pump only kicks in on START..then the AFM takes over and allows it to keep on when the air goes through it by moving the flapper in the AFM.The flapper movement will allow the pump to stay ON.

rhodges

Did some additional research on the Anti-Theft system and then took a look at the car again this afternoon.

Here are my findings:
1. The anti-theft horn remains on after pressing and holding the door lock switch, the door handle switch, and the key insertion switch
2. The anti-theft horn will shut off if I remove the box located under the dashboard labeled Theft_Module?)
3. I noticed several cut wires where the radio is (labeled Radio_Wires) and then noticed 4 green with red dash wires cut near the Theft Lockout Module (labeled Cut_Wires)
4. I can not determine where the adapter labeled Cut_Wires goes
5. Noticed that the Theft Lockout Module has a spot for a thin adapter to plug in but I don't see any loose wires

Things that happen when the Theft Module is disconnected:
1. Lights still work
2. Key insertion switch makes a beeping sound when pressed
3. Hazards power on
4. Ignition switch remains dead

Thanks in advance and any assistance will be greatly appreciated.