'84 gsl-se not starting and I'm a bit hopeless
 

I picked up my '84 se back in August and although the previous owner told me it could be finicky to start, I never really had any problems. Until about a month ago when it just went ahead and decided starting wasn't it's thing.

I've been working on it with my brother and we narrowed it down to the starter and ordered a rebuilt Bosch one. It came in and we installed it, but still nothing. As far as I've been able to tell, the grounds are good and the battery reads at 12.77. Took the starter out just to see what it's doing, and it does not spin or jump forward to engage the flywheel. Just a click followed by a whirring noise. Any idea what I can do?

I've got a video on my phone but it's saved as an mp4 so it's not letting me attach it

Tried working on it a bit more today and the starter reads right around 12.5 for the connection to the solenoid and right about the same with the solonoid connection to the rest of the starter. After attempting a push start and a jump start we've managed to get the starter to turn, all be it slowly. Even with it spinning and engaging during the jump start the thing still wouldn't start. I've got spark and fuel so I'm not really sure where to go from here.

It sounds like the wiring to the starter may be too small, damaged, or have bad connections.

You said you got a new starter, did you get a new solenoid too? It sounds as though the solenoid is moving but perhaps it's damaged? With a new motor I'm betting it's either the solenoid or like what rx787b said and the starter isn't getting enough power (amps that is). Make sure that the grounds are for sure good and if they are, try cleaning the battery terminals and any other connections between it and the starter. Also try bypassing the solenoid and giving it power strait from the battery. Good Luck!

I got a new starter and solenoid, gonna try to get them tested later today just to be sure everything is good. If the wiring is what's wrong, how would I go about replacing it?

What I'm curious about though is a jump start gets it engaging and spinning at full speed but the egine still doesn't start up. There's gotta be some other issue in the mix too. Even though I've got spark, could the distributor also be giving me issues?

If the solenoid is working when you turn the key and the starter works when you test it, replace the wire that goes from the battery to the starter. It should be something like 6 or 8 gauge (go with a bigger wire if in doubt). Make sure all the connections are good and solid. If that doesn't fix it, it's got to be a grounding issue or your battery is toast. Hope that helps.

When you push start, also known as bump start, it does not use the starter. The car however does need the key in the ON position. The push start method is best done using second gear. This gets the engine going at least 2000 RPM. Using the tradition Starter method only get the RPM to 1/10th of this.

When testing the starter outside the car, ensure you the 12 volt trigger wire going to the solenoid. The ground jumper cable goes to the case and the positive goes to the big bolt. Use a small wire to connect the trigger wire.

Went and got the starter tested, all's good there. Picked up a length of 4 gauge wire and new connectors so once it stops raining here I'll try replacing to replace the old wire and see what happens.

Should have a haynes manual showing up so that should make this a tad less confusing.

Considering neither a bump start or jump start got it going, where would the next place to look be if this doesn't work?

The factory service manuals can be found here: Foxed.ca

Alright so I replaced the wire to the starter and sanded down the connections on the chassis ground wire. Still no luck, the starter turns and engages but it's terribly slow and the car won't start. So it seems the starter still is not getting enough power.

After going through the repair manual I figure it should be noted the interior lights dim significantly when I turn the key.

My next step I guess would be to replace the chassis ground wire, but I can't find replacement connectors so I'll have to find some way to reuse the old ones.

take the battery and have it tested, not just putting a volt meter on it. testing the battery under load will determine if it has the amperage to run the starter at the desired speed to start the engine.

The way I did it was to run one ground from the battery to the starter. I used some pre-made wires from Tractor Supply. I THINK it was size 1 gauge. I then ran a two foot pre-made cable attached to the negative terminal bolt to the driver shock tower where the factory chases ground is. I then ran another pre-made two foot cable from the long alternator bolt to the shock tower factory location for good measure.

Best to be safe and use a string to get the length for your car but here are some suggestions. Also, replace the negative and positive cables. I personally don't like the cables with the built in pigtail. but the links below have them. I replace the though bolt on the negative cable with a long one so I can add the other grounds.

Negative (battery to starter) https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/pr...k?cm_vc=-10005

Positive (battery to starter) https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/pr...d?cm_vc=-10005

Hook up some jumper cables to a running vehicle and try to start.

I've tried a jump start a few times, and it'll get the starter going at a pretty good pace, but it still doesn't start. Gonna take the battery in to get tested tomorrow morning and for right now I'll try and use the wires I have considering the nearest tractor supply is a good 45 minutes away from me.

I assume there's something going on outside of the starter and wiring, maybe the distributor or fuel pump, but as of right now just getting the starter to work like it's supposed to is priority number 1.

If the starter is working properly when jump starting than there's nothing wrong with the wiring or starter. Have the battery tested, then work from there.

Have you checked compression, spark, and fuel? If the starter is spinning over at a good pace, something else is wrong.

Try and get it to run by jump starting it. If it spins just fine then spray some starting fluid down the primary's. If that doesn't work, check if if you have spark. Make sure that if you remove the air cleaner/box, that you plug the idle compensator hose with a bolt or something, otherwise you'll make a good sized vacuum leak.

So, figured out that second reason. Forgot about all the previous failed attempts to start the car and when I was testing for spark I realized the engine wad most likely flooded.

Pulled all the spark plugs and put the fuel line into a water bottle then cranked for a bit. Oddly enough, with the spark plugs put it cranked just fine but once I returned them to their holes the starter was slow again. A jump start got her going, so now I guess it's time to replace that ground wire.

One new issue though, near the end of my test drive a nasty misfire developed at idle. Nothing up top, no power loss that I can detect, even sounds normal once once you put your foot in it. But at idle it shakes violently and sounds like one of those single cylinder dirt bikes, so that's neat

With taking out the plugs, you removed the compression by allowing it to escape through the plug holes. That's why it spun easier. If a jump start got it going fine, it's you battery. The misfire at idle is probably a bad AF mixture or some ignition issue. Check your timing and see if all the plugs are firing.

Okay that makes sense, the spark kinda seemed a little weird when I tested it. Should have some new spark plug wires and some ngk br9eq 14 plug coming in sometime in the next few days.

Hopefully I can get it running this weekend. If that doesn't work then I'll try digging through the fuel system to see if something's up.

Coincidentally, I'm in the process of getting my '80 rx7 to run. I just swapped over the exhaust, intake, carb, emissions system (yes the rats nest too), etc. from my 1982 parts car. It's having idle issues that I'm hoping to get figured out by the weekend too. Good luck on your project and update us when you get the new plugs and wires. By the way if the plugs and wires don't fix it, warm up the car and check the resistance over the coils. It should be around 1.35 ohms.

did you put the plug wires back on correctly? if on one housing you mixed them up you probably wouldn't notice it much in the higher RPM range then you would at idle

The wires all went where they belong and are on all the way, but I did notice one of the wires for the front rotor was a real pain to get the spark plug in and was hesitant to spark. I assume that somehow it may have been damaged, but we'll see if replacing it fixes the problem.

If the troubled plug/wire was the leading plug, it could be an issue. If it was the trailing, it won't have a big effect on trying to start the car. If it was indeed the leading wire, try swapping with the trailing for a test.

Alright so I finally managed to replace the ground wire, but I had to find a way to reuse the middle connector. New spark plugs and wires are in now too.

Unfortuenetly, the car still won't start on it's own. With a jump start there is no hesitation to start up and it seems the plugs and wires halfway fixed the misfire. The shaking is gone but occassionally the idle still sounds like a dirt bike. A few taps of the gas usually fixed it and I noticed the idle with randomly jump up a few hundred sometimes so there is definitely a fuel issue.

However having it run right doesn't matter all that much if it can't start on it's own. I've replace the terminals, starter wire, ground wire, shock tower ground, connector to the starter and the connector to chassis ground. The battery tested good so the only thing I can think of is maybe that brass bolt in the lower part of the wheel well. It's the only thing I haven't replaced, could that really cause it not to start though?

Can you post some pictures of the starter wires? There is a fusible link on it. If it's bad it won't crank.

I'll try and get some pictures tomorrow once I get it back up on the jack stands.

The weather's looking decent this week so I should have more than enough time to fix it once I figure out where I messed up

Alright so I got pictures of the terminals, shock tower ground, connection to the ground on the chassis and the connection to the starter. As far as I can tell it all looks good, but it barely cranks now unless I jump it so clearly I did something wrong.

wire from positive to starter is 4 gauge and the ground wire is a 6 gauge if tbat makes any difference.

All the wiring in those pics looks good. Does the starter turn over at all?

It turns but painfully slow. For the most part I'm just getting a ton of clicks.

I did notice before I changed the wires that when I tested the voltage at the starter and had my brother crank it would fall from around 11 or 12 to between 0 and 2. Not sure what would cause that but there aren't many variables left to change here.

Your battery is losing its cranking amps because of all the attempts you've made. Can you have someone pull the car by chance? You're most likely flooded and have washed all the oil out by now. You can de-flood it but if you can pull it down the road it'll probably start. The nice thing about this method is you don't have to de-flood which can be a pain and less successful than actually pulling it down the road with an f150 haha. If it doesn't then you have fuel, spark issue. Maybe timing, I doubt it though since you said it was running.

Sounds like you had quite tge adventure lol. It used to be flooded but that problems been cleared up, a jump start will get it going.

I might go ahead a pick up some $50 battery at Walmart just to see if my battery is the issue. I got it tested and the guy said everything checked out but at this point I've replaced just about everything else

I have a couple of questions:

When you were cranking it, is the engine turning?
When the issue popped up initially, did the engine turn at a normal cranking speed and then over time got slower and slower?
When you took your spark plug out(and put your fuel line into a bottle?) were they wet with fuel?
What condition are your spark plugs in? Photos?

EDIT: Missed the post about the new plugs.

Yes the engine is cranking, just really slowly.

Back when it went and decided not to run anymore the engine just gradually cranked slower and slower. It had occassionally been hesitant to start before and needed a push to get going.

Yes they were wet when I pulled them out.

New plugs are in it, I'll try to get pictures when there's some light

Try another battery. If that fails, I'm saying the starter us suspect.

Ok. Before you spend more money... because it really comes down saving time and most importantly money,

1.Check compression- that's how it happens man.. just one day it decides it doesn't want to start on its own. Check it before anything else. Seriously haha.
2. You say that you have wet plugs so gas isn't an issue so forget gas for now.
3. You've replaced plugs and wires so they're good. And it starts with a pull so you have spark.
4. Double check your wire configuration just in case.
5. Timing is probably good but worth checking. Very easy with a bit of research.

Edit: Get the car started and if you can drive it around for a while and charge up your battery with the alternator. You will get your cranking amps back for a proper compression test.

All of your vitals have been verified to be good accept for compression. Check your compression.

If I remember correctly, aren't rotaries tested for compression differently than a normal piston engine? Is thwre some special compression tester I need or can I just swing by AutoZone and rent one?

I've driven it around a few times now trying to sort out the misfire at idle, still no easier to start. I know this thing had a habit of draining batteries according to the last owner but I'm not really sure what'd cause that. He just used one of those battery tenders and it worked for him, but I haven't been having the same luck with mine.

You can use a normal compression tester for overall compression. Some people like to take the valve out when they're checking the compression pulses. I personally just hold the valve in as someone cranks. If you're seeing 80 or under on overall compression or if you have a noticeably uneven pulse rhythm then your internals are worn and an engine overhaul is necessary.

There are two issues that are present right now: 1 The car won't start on its own, and 2 The car has a rough idle. I don't think the issues are related. Years ago my friend had a Nova with a high compression 454. The car struggled a lot to turn over when starting. One of the reasons for this was the weight of motor oil he was running in the engine. I doubt this is your problem, but I'd be interested to know what weight oil you're running. The car is pulling too many amps when you're cranking the engine and the previous owner had problems with the battery staying charged. It sounds to me like there's some kind of electrical issue. I would suggest to go through the electrical system and check for shorts or grounds. You may be able to isolate the fault by removing fuses to unnecessary components then cranking to see if the cranking amps improve.

A compression test wouldn't hurt, I don't think it'll give any clue to the problems with getting the engine started though. Once you get the engine running you've said that it makes decent power, albeit after a rough idle. So, there's compression, and low compression wouldn't make the starter struggle to turn the engine over.

You either have a junk battery, or junk starter, take/borrow a battery from another car/friend and see if its any different, if not, replace the starter

Alright so long overdue update:

Long story short, she starts all on her own now and the misfire seens to have vanished along with the bouncy idle (I mean that's still there but it bounces up and down maybe 20-40 revs instead 400).

The not so short version is that I went to autozone to pick up a new battery and hopefully an alternator belt to replace my dry rotted one. After buying a battery that didn't fit or make my car start, this old guy with grease blackened hands in a beat up corolla from the 90s rolls up next to me and asked what was wrong. It took him all of 30 seconds to ask for a set of jumper cables and clamped one end to the negative terminal and one to the engine. Cranked it and the car started right up. Ran a wire from the negative terminal to a bolt near the power steering pump and right now all seems well. Only took me a few months and hundreds of dollars to not even get half as far as a retired mechanic did in 2 minutes lol. Guess that's life for ya.

Still a lot of issues to figure out like my temp guage always reading cold, un-jankifying the suspension, getting an exhaust that doesn't sound like thousands of bees discovered gunpowder, and more bodywork than I care to imagine.

Current question though is should I leave the old chassis and shock tower grounds in or are they due to be evicted?

I don't know much about suspension but it's nice to hear that you finally got it fixed. Keep us posted.

Leave the shock tower negative connection. I ran an extra negative from the battery to the long bolt on the alternator.