gota b more ppl out there doin n/a perfomance
 

so theres alot of n/a cars out there, does everyone do a t2 swap or what?
i read somwhere that the bigger the port u go the lower your tourq would b...personally i like my tourqe...any way to increase tourqe and whp equally?
got an 86 n/a s4.

Aaron Cake has a N/A.

Aarons RX-7

I'm stuck in N/A world... That's where the fun is at. Cute and cuddly until I get on the throttle.

i like NA better too. we've got some projects in the pipeline, but no time!

the one i really want to do is go to the dyno with a pipe cutter and get the PP straightened out...

Porting increases torque. Always.

your car runnin yet?

+1 to the N/A!

It all depends on how fast you want to go and how you can handle driveability. Some people puss out and say bridgeports and pport are not streetable because they either have no balls or they don't know how to set one up properly.

So what do you wan't to do with the car?

i don't know about power yet, but i did spend some time tuning and the P port drives like an FC with a TPS that's off a little, and this is with a carb + locked timing. EFI and and ignition curve should make it like a stock FC...

noise is the ONLY thing thats keeping me from using it as a DD, as its FUN.

Or because they are realistic and understand that some people like a/c, power steering, and a radio in their cars. A street car should not EVER be a stripped down bare bones cut up rolling tin can that looks like a race car without a cage with a seat strapped into it. It is no longer a street car at that point. Some people also need to pass emissions testing which can not easily be done with the more aggressive ports. I'm not against other people doing it to their own cars but I will never do it to one of mine. It will also still be quite fun as porting doesn't make a car fun. The car already is. Once I lost the desire to compete in the horsepower wars, I started to actually enjoy the car for the first time.

well,as far as seting up ports i dont quite have that knowhow(yet)...thing is, im not really interested in racing the thing or competeing, i just want to have fun with the thing increasing performace driving skills...
i read a little about porting, dont remember where i read it but some one said somthin about sacrificing a little tourque and hp on the lower end rpms for an increase in rwhp on the higher end. this isnt true? looks like i need to search around some more...i would enjoy good tourque and hp on both ends
as far as what i wana do with the car, i want to be able to control it at high speeds and controled slides...so basicaly i dont need to do a bunch of crazy stuff to it...i just want maybe a 50 to 100 hp increase...the s4 n/a came with around 150 hp and 150 torque(almost) so i thought maybe i can make it like say around 250 hp and tourque(max) i think that should be plenty for what i want to do...you guys think its possible without porting...prolly not?
i think im gona focus alot of attention on suspension and frame/body reenforcments, low profile cage im starting to design...i want it to look slick, streetable but supreme handling and good power.
oh yeah, in oregon if the car's over 20 yrs, no emissions...its nice.
mine is a daily driver and will be for a while im sure. right now in fact i dont have a house...i live outa my fc...i take good care of it and it me...im lovin it

I guess you would fall into my category of "no balls". :lol::lol: Totally kidding...
I hear you, but different people have different tolerances for noises and driveability and what is considered a street car or not. The race car that is in my sig, I used to drive it all the time on the street and I liked it alot. It has a 12abp and I had seats and most of the interior before I turned it into a full drag race car to compete. I had a solid hub 4 puck clutch with stock TII trans and it didnt' bother me a bit. But some people would have a hissy fit if they drove my car. Like I said it all depends on if your a man or not. LOL People would actually flag me down and make me pull over to check it out and give me thumbs up all day long. Not too many people see old school rotaries around my parts. Another reason to buy an old school is that you don't have to worry about emissions, at least in California which has some of the stictist emission laws out there. If I were to build another street N/A car I would go semipport. Get the best of both worlds.

No way in hell you can make 250hp on stock ports N/A. It sounds to me that you would be better off with just a header and exhaust system and a good intake system and fix the suspension up like you mentioned. The only way to make the power levels that you're talking about is by porting.

yeah but how big of a port?...and is what i heard bout losin some low end stuff true...i said i would search but im using a very primitive computer here with dial up at the moment so its truly difficult to switch throu pages.

When I was 19, I would have tolerated a stripped down car with a p-port on the street. That was when gas was a dollar a gallon. That doesn't mean the car was streetable. It means I was tolerant. You could theoretically drive a Cessna down the street too as it rolls! Now that I'm an adult with a career and a 100 mile daily commute, there is no way in hell I'll do that again! I'm not that tolerant of non streetable equipment!

Sounds like you are speaking of flywheel hp, as the stock fc has around 145ft-lbs flywheel. But while 250hp is very achievable, 250 torque is not. The most efficient 13b in the world will be right at 200ft-lbs flywheel, or 170 rwtq. That is more than enough to make 300rwhp. But it takes WAAAAAAY more to pull those numbers than just porting. Or huge porting. Which is why n/a is so much damn fun! :)

See all that salt on the roads? Car won't be allowed out until March or April.

The engine's assembled, and physically under the hood, at least. Not actually bolted to anything other than the transmission.

--


Low end will increase if you port intelligently and make good decisions with the rest of the package.

Even so, even a street port will make more low end power, even though the powerband feels a lot more pointy than stock.

see the answers that im getting to my questions r great, thats part of the reason why i was hoping to see more threads under the n/a performance section so that i can just read instead of askin questions and potentially sounding...dumb?
that been said i gotta nother dumb q...
so if i focus on clutch, tranny, and diff...what do you mean thats more than enough to make 300rwhp....?, if i upgrade those components to handle 200ft-lbs, then whats left...intake, exuast, porting? and still, if i go big port, then i would loose low end power, unless i make up for that with reaching that 200ft-lbs? sorry im just tryin to understand this correctly....new to rotary's, new to upgrading, and new to tuning... not so new to wrenching, so im sure it wont take me too long to understand...
maybe you could elaberate what you mean when you say..'port intelligently and make good decisions with the rest of the package'?
i'd definately like to hear more ideas about getting the most out of our n/a's(without sacrificing anything)...thanks guys!

In my opinion its more about expectations when it comes to engine setup. Before you touch a single thing you have to identify the purpose, then build up to that.

For example: If you know that the car will be street driven then you know it will have to maintain its low end power. It will need a medium weight flywheel (don't go too light). Use a transmission that you can easily downshift for street use and figure out where you want your powerband to be.

Up high and you will need a good, free flowing exhaust and intake and exhaust header lengths must agree with one another. That is a direct reflection of what type of port you want to use. Higher in the rev range means more overlap to match the breathing needs of the engine. Down low a good streetport with an earlier IO and a little later IC with and earlier EO will make for a very fun car.

Just remember that free flowing exhaust is going to drone you out with bridge or p-port unless you build the entire exhaust out of 12ga tubing and that will be heavy. Everything is doable when done with a goal in mind. The definition of realistic and driveable lie with the driver.

k man im sorry but, you lost me at IO, IC, and EO?
as far as the flywheel goes, i was thinkin bout usin a good aftermarket medium wieght, dont need an extreme light wieght competition thing...with the tranny i was thinkin simple...like tii simple. could be wrong, but i thought i read somwhere that it was pretty much a direct swap in with the n/a?(was also thinkn bout a short gear shift system...)
you think the tii tranny would hold up against 170tq? 200flywheel?

and exhuast...i was thinkn 2.25 all the way back with a presilencer...idk too much...the goal in mind is to give enough flow but still a quiet ride...thing is with the n/a s4 the aux ports open from backpressure from the cat...i would like to rid of the cat cause in OR emissions dont matter 20yrs or older, but on the other hand i need the backpressure...you think a presilencer would balance out for enough flow, silence, and back pressure for the port actuators?
i read some things about actuating the ports throu various means and none of them really appeal to me as they open under certain load depending on if you WOT or just cruising would change the speed at which they open and how far they open...i dont want them to be open all the time and dont want them to snap open all the way when the engine doesnt call for it, basically i want them to function as close to OEM specs as possible for best performance...at least from what i read thats my thoughts on it.
still learnin sorry guys...thanks

IO-Intake open
IC- Intake close
EO- Exhaust open

so lemme see if i understand correctlly, to achieve "a good street port" it depends not only on the size of the port but the positioning too right, or is there a standard area to which all ports are cut? im thinkin that by the way you said 'earlier IO and a little later IC with an earlier EO' actually denotes where you make your cuts...right?
see im thinkin that when i do this rebuild i can also pick up a couple templates for a port...not sure what kind of port to go with yet, thats mostly the reason im asking so i can get some ideas....still tryin to understand porting and figure which kind of port would be the best for my application...thanks guys im always down to hear more ideas...

im going to have a full PPort done by Rob at Pineapple and im going to street drive the snot out of it... but until then ive got an s5 na 6 port that im probably going to rebuild withjust the stock front and back irons (and robs 6 port inserts), and find a good center iron with a port bigger then the stock s5 center irons port, and put a carb on that with a set of 4.44 gears, and street drive the snot out of that. but thats because i could tolerate a pp with 6.0 ring and pinion and the racing beat megaphone... its just a matter of what everyone else around me complains about.

im thinkin bout rebuiling with all new rotors, housings, and irons...my motor is 24 yrs old w 150k orig...im pretty sure theyre probably all dust by now...cheapest i found rotors for is ~$600ea., housings ~$700ea., and irons idk yet but while the rotors and housings brand new cost ~$2600, and the seals and o-ring kits are ~$1200...in addition ~$5 or $600 more for misc. thats already ~3300-3400...its starting to look expensive...but on the other hand i dont really trust the low priced housings and stuff i find on ebay as the pics dont really give the product justice...cant tell what id be getting....plus if im gona take the time to rebuild the motor, im not gona wana have to take it all apart for a while afterwards so i figured goin brand new and breakin in gently would be the most efficient route...i dont wana half-ass it.
im confident that i can rebuild myself if all the tools and materials were in front of me combined with the FSM and a video or two, however im thinking it might just be cheaper to buy a motor from a respectable company that would use all new stuff...
anyone know of a person and/or company that would sell new rotors, housings, irons for a better price than i found, so that i can rebuild myself? would love to get that exp.
or does someone know where i can buy a (trust-worthy) complete motor (new parts)for a decent price?

oh yeah one more stupid q...p-port? parallel port? bigger than a bridge port?

p-port means peripheral port, its totally different compared to a bridge port as the port is not on the irons its on the housing, a hole must be machined on he housing and the irons are filled in

Not too get jack the thread but kind of EMS do you guys recommend?

I was thinking about looking to something for my S4 na. With a proper tune would there be a noticeable increase in power?

Even with 150k on the engine I am sure the rotors will spec out perfectly fine. The irons most likely will be pretty good too. If not getting them re-surfaced and re-nitrated would be cheaper than new (about $100 per side housing). Getting brand new rotor housings however is always a good idea. We can build this type of engine without a problem, and take pics of the assembly process so you know exactly what is in it. If you choose to go that route

a friend of mine has an ITS built FC, and he swapped from the stock ecu to an E6k, he says its way faster. and so far fuel is just tuned with a WB, and the timing map i made up at home....

ecu choice is up to you, IMO the Rtek is a great choice for a stock port engine.

first off this is a good thread

i have a 87 s4 sport i have been playing around with for about 3 years now with trail and error beening my best bet for the first 2 years

my setup for now is a half bridge (on the aux ports) s4 keg with a s5 intake (total garbage past 7k)
s5 na trans (they are cheap and every have 2 spares)
4.30 pinon gear with in the diff
rtek 2.0
running 550cc primary and secondary injectors that have been rebuilt
cork sport header (should be in the trash)
straight pipe with 3 inch after the header

the car is pretty fun finding the right timing map is what i am working on now.
noise level is loud but saving up for new exhaust i have blown to much cheap stuff.
recently had it on the dyno running stock timing map only change in the timing map was that i had the timing advanced at idle 1500 thru 2k

i made 164 hp 125 TQ

good starting pont i think but furture mods consist of turbo manifold better exhaust setup and more time on the dyno for tuning

here is a video of it when i first got it running with the bridge. now it has about 5k on the motor

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lp17iNant6Q

Yeah the Rtek2 was what I was looking at. If I ever went turbo would that ECU still work?

Try a S4 N/A manifold. It made lots more power everywhere than the Turbo II manifold. More low end, more mid range, and best 1/4mi shiftpoint went from ~7800 to ~8800-9200 so it was flowing a lot better at the top end, too.

The TII manifold looks neat from a theoretical aspect, but it has a horrible shape due to having to clear the turbo on the bottom and the intercooler at the top, and the plenum is just all wrong. Altering the port window to mate up to a 6-port block will just make the situation at the block flange worse.

wow so the s4 intake i took of would work better u say that is very disapointing after stuff i had to do to get this intake to work but u know what for shits and giggles i may throw it on this week end and head back to the dyno just test this theory


also what header should i try out
and what spark plugs do u run i have found that running all bur9's make the most power up top but under light load the motor bucks compared to the bur7's at the same ignition curve?


sorry if i am thread jacking:egrin::egrin:

sadly no u will need to find a turbo ecu to send in and get it chipped

If you want a header that will grow with your setup, and provide more power than anything on the market, we can put you on the build list. I have five more spots to fit in our "promotional" pricing. Send me a PM for more info if interested

Lame, what about a haltech or microtech?

haltech is universal, so yes. microtech, needs to go back to austrailia to get reprogrammed.

the Rtek could be used on an NA ecu to do a mild turbo setup, although the ecu won't really know it.

you could also get a turbo ecu rteked and run it NA.... then when you go turbo you're all set

Hm, thhe turbo Rtek for an NA sounds like the best option next to the haltech.

my fear is that with that many miles on it, chances are, apex tearin shit up...dont know for sure but its a fear of mine...did the poor mans compression test...sounds fine but dont know for sure...im deffinately interested in getting it done as cheap as possible but at the same point, sacrificing efficiency is not acceptable. i cant wait to tear it down and see what it looks like on the inside.
btw i sent you a PM. thanks guys!

one problem tho turbo ecu's need to see a knock sensor which na's dont have

and every sensor have to be close to matching in number a n237 ( i think that is is the na number)
need a n237 maf and boost sensor of shit will run crappy

but you can run like a n236 and n237 parts together tho

So what all would go into making the TII ECU with rtek work?

ok i am still kinda new to the bridge port thing but this is normal for my car right????:nod::nod::nod::nod::nod:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdLUBWUnkqo

I'm wanting to build an n/a set up. I'm thinking using s5 rotating assembly on my s4 housing with a full pp and a 9lb flywheel with a long tube header and true dual 2.5" each exhaust, I'll b unning a tii drivetrain with a 4.44 rear end with a twin plat clutch. I'm using an fb dizzy with dellorto dhla 48mm side draft carbs will b tuned by Carlos Gonzalos of GNS racing. I'm thinking about using tii housings for a 4 port set up but not sure yet, what u guys think?
The biggest problem I'm having is not sure what to do about exhaust as far as how to keep it quiet enough to street.this car has to remain streetable. I'm buileing for autocross and road racing but drift a little bit.expecting to throw down around 300rwhp. The car is completly gutted and not worried about comfort as it will not b my dd but will street it. What you guys think? Oh, btw I'm posting from my cell phone and have a small screen so sry for the poor typing, I just can't see it so well. Thanks for understanding.

If you're doing a peripheral port then it does not matter if you start with 6-port or 4-port side housings, since the intake ports are just going to be filled with epoxy.

Guaranteed you will not see 300 wheel horsepower with a carburetor and an exhaust that has useful mufflers on it.

mazda usually brings out all the race cars for sevenstock, and the historics and stuff, and the newer ones aren't that loud, they are still probably too loud for the street

so the muffled setup, is a header into the muffler into turn down. they are running a single 3 or 3.5" pipe and muffler. the muffler is basically custom, as the PP will ruin anything you can buy off the shelf

wait, i want to understand this correctly.
if i did a PP then i would fill in the aux ports, then wouldnt one that did that lose low end power/torque?

When you do a peripheral port, you fill in ALL the original intake ports

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-...85/shtgn15.jpg

And you run new intake ports through the rotor housings

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-...85/shtgn10.jpg

Preferably not the way I did it...

shit, i really gota learn more about this porting stuff...
particularlly n/a porting.
ima search a bit more, thanks