FD with lt10s and MSD
 

I just finished LT10S install and single 60-1 turbo.
now I can't start the car no red light and yellow blinks when cranking.
also leading get sparks.
I wired MSD after factory ignitor. my lt10a suppose to work with 1 leading coil like factory set up.

engine was rebuilt about 10,000 km ago with street port and was running strong before installation.

fuel set up is 2*550 +2*1680? with aeromotive fpr.

engine seems getting too much fuel.I changed plug but still same.

OK now question is
do I have to change any setting to run with MSD even waste spark set up?
how much base fuel presure(engine not running) should be at?

my local tuner said base map should start it up fine even with MSD.

thanks.

If your getting spark on leading it should start. i reckon you have just flooded the car.

Get your handset or laptop and

tell me what your values are for IDLE map
and LOAD map.
Where did you get you computer from and is it programmed for X4box or no?

Base fuel pressure at 40psi with intank pump, or 30psi with external pump.

thanks.
I got the unit from microtech dealer near by.
it is supposed to be programed to run without x4..

I don't have hand set or dongle yet so I can't tell you .but I'll get it soon.

Well get it and well go from their.

OK finally I got the hand set.
and It's not very user friendly.I think it's too easy to make mistake..

anyway my idle map is

00" hg 4.00
05 3.48
10 2.48
15 2.00
20 1.48
25 1.48
30 1.33

also I got water temp map.

11C +50%
18 45
24 35
31 30
38 20
46 15
60 12
68 08
82 00

my tps and water temp and air temp all normal.

now what do I do?

What spark plugs have you got?
Im not very familiar with the MSD unit, dont even know why people bother with a such a crappy unit.
Anyways
You have verified you have spark on the leading leads. Get your timing light, and check that you have your leads the right way around and they are firing in the correct position.
And if all is correct, its as simple as plugs and it should go.

I'm using bur9e all around.
I even tried new plugs but still no go.
my coil fires but haven't checked actual timing.
I tried all kind deflooding method but it almost tried to catch but fails.
I'll check the timing and bypass MSD on this weekend.

What coil packs are you using? Factory Coil packs?


Check timing !

I'm using MSD coil..

BTW to day I had a little time to play with hand set again and found possible problem.when I crank crank rpm shows 320 but not steadly. it keeps changing from 320 to 0 and 320 again also fuel pump realy cliks as rpm bounces.

if this is not normal I guess I have problem with CAS or CAS wiring.
should I seperate CAS wiring from main harness and power line?I thought only
FC has CAS signal problem with MT..
or ma CAS simply too weak..

thanks for the good advices..

Ok its an FD.
How sure are you that the microtech is programmed for an FD?

i think its fairly normal that the crank signal does that, have someone check to make sure that their is fuel pressure while you are cranking.

Have you done a self test and verified your injectors are ticking etc?

so it's normal..
i thought that would be the problem..

OK I just did self test and everything looks normal injectors fire OK (can't check primary though)
fan cycles...
but found out weired setup on screen though I saw on same screen there was firing set up as sequential and group.. and mine was set at sequential.
I think since I use 1 coil it should be group isn't it?
I didn't change and try to start it up yet but I'm gona try tomorrow.
also it shows something like mazb2.0 and mazts6 on the screen I think s6 means FD.
may be I have one for with X4 even I asked my dealer to order for without X4.

what do you think?

also when in self test mode factory tach meter supposed to show any RPM?
mine stays at 0..maybe I for got to wire to gauge?

Should show rpm.
You looking at tacho or handset.

Get a timing light hook it up to Leading Front. And check that coils are firing are correctly.
this will tell us if the MSD or computer are not working correctly.

handset shows some thing like 680 rpm but my factory tacho shows 0

howabout that squential or group firing option?
that'll make any difference?

also you want me to check with the timing light while cranking or in selftest mode?

I'll have to get the timing light tomorrow..

Tacho isnt wired properly. 680rpm is what it should show.
Check timing light while cranking.

from the microtechs that i have seen it should be sequential. But i dont know how the MSD works so i couldnt tell you.

What i would do is delete the MSD all together and run FC factory coil packs. They work alot better then the MSD

OK I checked timing with timing light..
I think it's messed it's about 30-40 btdc also it's not really steady.
I think it's MSD realated issue.
I'll check my ignition map.
but I think I saw somewhere I should change dwell with MSD or any amplifier.
any idea?

100% MSD related issue. Always is.

I cant help you with the MSD, dont know anything about them. Id by pass it.

personally I want to keep it. because I had great sucess with it in the past..
well then again If I don't have any choice i have to dump it..
I'll try couple more things and let you know..

I ran two MSD's before I switched to Microtech. Then I dumped them and went to four direct fire MSD Blaster coils ignited by the x4 box. Works great that way. Although I still believe the 6al's I used threw a hotter spark, but car still runs strong.

IF your looking for strong spark.

Get Crane Hi-6. Best CDI ignition setup i have seen period.

OK I took the MSD out and put stock coil and still no go.

I was rechecking the wires and found interesting possible wiring diagram fu*k up.
I don't know everybody gets same diagram but I got the copy of diagram in the manual and it's very crappy it's originally LT10 diagram and microtech crosed orignal color and remarked with handwriting..
whatever as long as they are correct..

now I was checking the CAS wiring I have blue red yello green on the diagram also on the harness.
and diagram show like this

(0)----blue
(0)----red

I
(0)----yellow
(0)----green

blue and yellow goes to MT and red and green connected together with shield and gos to ground.

but how come my blue and green wire has internally grounded.
when diagram shows red and green wire supposed to be ground..

anybody has correct diagram?

if this was my problem I really want to fly out to australia and kick some dumb asses..

Something dosnt sound right.


Yellow and blue should be GND.
Green and red are the crank inputs.

On the microtech it self

with the computer facing(plug side looking at you) you and the computer upright(microtech writing facing the roof).

The CAS plug will be on the right of the main plug.

Red is bottom left pin, Green is bottom right pin, Yellow and blue and are top right pin. Top left pin isnt connected to anything.

And on the other side of the CAS loom the shield should NOT be grounded anyway, and any solder joints, should be wrapped with a few layers of foil and taped up. ANd it should be run away from factory coil packs as much as possible.

the CAS looms are the same on all microtechs.

http://www.microtechefi.com/pdf/LTX8...3BTS4-5ign.pdf

Use this diagram if my explanation dosnt make sense.
Also if you can scan your diagram in, i want to see what the hell they have done.

OK I checked MT side wiring loom and looks OK except it doesn't have yellow wire
but I think it is joined with other GND in the loom anyway.(checked with ohm meter)

but look at my diagram(ignore blue writing that's my note)
it doesn't make sense at all..

it says one sensor end is blue and MT end is red....
also yellow is sensor signal when it is connected to ground..

what a fuck up it is..

I think I should re wire so top of each sensor goes to MT and bottom goes to ground.

also which color suppose to be no1(top?) sensor?
I don't understand how everybody doesn't have any issue with this crappy diagram..

Red and Green are definitely not grounds. I dont know what the hell is going on their. That diagram is wrong.
Who sold you the microtech?

The red and green are crank in puts.

The other colours are gnd

Do your self a favour.

Get a Lt8 diagram for FD and use that.

well I think that's next thing I should try..
my battery drained out already.
I'll charge it up and try tomorrow or after.
I don't know how come only me having this problem.only I got this diagram when everybody else get correct one?

I got the unit from MT dealer here..he order from AUS and I got it after 2-3 weeks..

well I try and let you know..

I got MTX-8 Ignition diagram..and it shows completly different conection.

this diagram shows red one is top(speed*12) signal and green is bottom(home) signal..
other two wires doesn't matter anyway becau se they both ground.
also they use bottom pin of the sensor for the signal when mine shows top pin for the signal..

well I guess I try anyway..

well I just keep looking at the diagram and I think there is no difference even though there picture is wrong.
because I didn't add any ground at the sensor side..their ground wire (blue and yellow) is different but it's just ground so I don't see any problem.

both picture red wire goes to top sensor bottom pin and green wire goes to bottom sensor bottom pin..
no difference what so ever..

damm it just gave me headache but nothing..

I'll post some more picture..

How about ignition output diagram?
it shows grey/blue is tach out but I don't even have that color I have grey/black
I assumed that's the same wire so I left alone for now.

it also corrected from orignal diagram I think because color of the wire has been changed..

but Now I got to make sure every possible thing..

OK I double checjed everything and move CAS wiring from coils.

now MY leading timing while crnaking with timing light shows BTDC 10.also on handset shows 10 too.
I'm thinking 10 BTDC is too much advanced while cranking.
can anybody check hand set while cranking?

also anybody know how much gap between CAS and CAS wheel.because when I check timing wight light it doesn't light fast enough I know some timing light not really pick up the signal too good but also if CAS signal is weak it'll do too.

I just don't get it it has good compression,fuel and spark but no go..doesn't make sense.

Well if your checking timing on crank its not going to light up very fast.

Next if you have too much timing while cranking, the engine will act as if it is trying to seize up.

While cranking now, what does the engine do? Crank and do nothing?

when I crank
well it allmost trying to fire but not really I can even see some smoke also my wideband shows some 16.o but not really fires.

but it's not like it tried to seize I understand if timing is too much advance engine should try to kick back..but I don't really feel that..I'm thinking may be flouded too much spark plug not firing really?
but also I tried all kind of de flooding method but still was same..

BTW I programed the new map which you posted for someone with similer set up.
but funny thing I can't adjust first line in t*rpm map.
your map shows
screen 23
t*rpm

idle~00

but my lt10s was set to 10 and I couldn't lower that value when ever I change it'll change back to 10 again..
I don't know because this map was originally fot lt8 and mine lt10 that's why it wouldn't let me lower?
I thought this line is actually set the timing when cranking.

I have to charge the battery again and try again tomorrow..it's really furustrating now..

is 10 BTDC normal when cranking?because MAZDA shopmanual says atdc 5 degree if remember correctly.

thanks again..

Ok. If you cant adjust the number in trpm on idle it means your OPT_Timtrm is set to 10.
Go to your option and look for it. Youll see it.

Also.
Put 150-200ml of oil done the runner of each rotor. See if it starts.

OK actually my opt_timtrim was set to 0 but my OPT_static was set to 10..
so I changed is to 0 now my cranking ignition is 0..
is this sound alright?

I really don't know but I guess that's some kind correction value right?

but if I check the timing with actual timing light it still shows about 10 deegree BTDC. well my timing light is so old might be not accurate..
my battery is so weak I could just program and some cranking I'll try again over the weekends..

thanks again

You need good crank, good plugs and good compression for it to start.
Yes opt_static is the correct one. it is a set minimum timing value. my brain is alittle crusty.
at 10 degrees it will still start.

Did you put some engine oil in it and try start it?

I have an LT10s diagram for an FD that also shows red and green going to ground! It also fails to mention anywhere that the fan output is no longer white,as found out when the fans didn't come on! It says white and red on another diagram for a 13b turbo,but it was white and black that made them work.
Also on the 13b turbo diagram it does not show the igniton wiring,says see separate igniton diagram,nowhere to be seen.
Time Microtech reprinted their diagrams!

Microtech have been very slack since the "new" a-grade dealer came on and took control.

The wire for the fan should be white/red. Why it ended up being white/black is bloody weird.

Microtech have been very slack since the "new" a-grade dealer came on and took control.

The wire for the fan should be white/red. Why it ended up being white/black is bloody weird.

OK my compression is back..but still doesn't start.
my rear rotor compression was 60 psi but after trying tow start now got perfect
compression front 120psi rear 140 psi..
but still doesn't start it almost start engine even gets warm but still not turning over.
also very funny thing even my handset shows 0 degree timing if I use timming light it's not 0 it's like 15-20 BTDC..

now I'm bypassing the MSD so it's not the MSD issue..

any ideas?

So your bypassed the msd
How is it running now?

Lt10s+x4box and 4X bosch hec715 coil packs?

it has stock ignitor and stock coils now..
that waht my lt10s supposed to be set up.

well this whole microtech is a big joke I think.
I have big dought un wiring diagram I have..
for the ignition it shows
grey/red to leading ignitor
grey/white to trailing front
grey/green to trailing rear
and grey/blue to tach.

well on my lt10s doesn't have grey/blue it has grey/black instead.
so untill now I just haven't connected grey/balck to tach..
today car still didn't start showing wrong timing again so I just wanted to make sure I just connect grey/black to factory tach wire(yellow/blue) but factory tach
doesn't work..

now I don't even know which wire has to go where..
can you tell which wire goes to where by pin position not by color?

My worst fear came true today..
I was hopping I could start the engine today but I only found I have coolant O ring failure..
Well I guess nothing wrong with MT or MSD damm too much coolant comming out from rear rotor when I removed EX manifold water was pouring out!!.

damm rebuild time comes so soon..

may be I'll do some more porting this time..

special thaks to rx72c.
I'll keep posting after rebuild..

No dramas mate.
let me know for your rebuild parts.
Ill do you a good price. Just msg me.

that diag is right,

just hook blue and red to one sensor and yellow and green to the other

Dale.
I have done a few lt10s installs on FD and that diagram is different.