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due to the video its a lot more clear to me that its at least partly the TPS signal. You cannot have it jumping around like that. You are engaging flood clear.
also I think the reason it will start without the map plugged in is because it seeing 100 kpa is preventing it from going into fuel cut. to enter fuel cut you need a low kpa and a descending rpm reading. but i may be wrong about this one..
also.. it looks like you're using an old firmware.. would probably be a good idea to upgrade as i know they had problems with implementing engine states. (and its still not right completely..)
Yeah the s4 tps is really biting me. It seems there’s no way to disable flood clear. Maybe I can manually input a sensor count while calibrating to a number that the tps cannot reach?
The seems to need some throttle input and prodding to sound like it’s about to start.
Hmmm. I’m pretty sure fuel cut decel (overrun fuel cut? whichever it’s called) is disabled but I’ll look into that.
After looking at your data logs which I could not do yesterday it's looking like you have severe noise issues. even your internal ECU temperature is fluctuating. everything is very spastic and you have many sync loss counts that climb as you're cranking. Poor grounding or unshielded CAS wiring or both need addressed.
Yeah, I noticed that the sync count seems to increase slowly during cranking. The ms3pro harness had shielded cas wires, the only unshielded portion I suppose is right where the wires connect to the weatherpack connector. I have the ECU with dual grounds to the engine as shown in the attached photo, which I figured should be sufficient.
I think I'm going to try and seperate the CAS wiring from the rest of the wires. Currently it is all traveling within the same split loom. I figured the shielding would take care of any issues, but maybe not. Engine Grounds
How is the engine grounded? Are there grounds from the battery to those rotor housings as well?. The way I have it set up: Each rotor housing has its own ground wire to the battery. I then grouped each individual (6) ECU grounds and crimped them together with an eyelet connector at the same point as one of the rotor housing grounds. As for power I made sure nothing else is feeding off of the ECU power supply. As for the shielded wire being in the same loom as everything else i don't see that being an issue.. However, I would make sure nothing is ran near the coils. Here is my question. Are your signals still noisy on ACC without cranking and without the engine running?
The engine itself should be grounded via the starter grounding wire that grounds the starter as well and is attached to the driver side shock tower. I recently redid that cable and ring terminal and replaced all of it. So that should be good.
Those two grounds on the engine in the photo I posted go to the fuse panel. I don’t have a great photo so I found a photo from my build and circled where those two wires end up
All of fhe ms3pro ground wires from both connectors are grouped together and attached to the ground panel via one ring terminal.
My battery is relocated to the passenger bin. 12v from the passenger battery goes to the fuse panel. The battery itself is grounded to the chassis within the passenger bin.
It looks like there is still some noise when the car is just sitting on ACC. ECU fluctuates about 0.5 degrees here and there. I attached a log as well.
Semi related, should I be installing some sort of restrictor pill on the vacuum line to the MAP sensor ?
I had similar problems when i first installed a megasquirt. My cas was wired wrong. triple check that. It still kinda works when wired wrong.
Ive never had the noise or grounding issues everyone talks about. I honestly think noise and grounding become the scapegoat. No offense meant to anybody.
So here's an update of where I'm at and what I've looked at.
-Re-cleaned fuel injectors. Also realized I needed some resistors for low-z secondaries (not that it should matter right now since only primaries are used when trying to start iirc). Installed said needed resistors.
-Replaced fuel tank strainer. Replaced fuel filter and fuel lines.
-Went through assembly photos and was able to confirm timing marks on pulley were correct.
-Verified spark and fuel injectors worked via testing in tunerstudio.
-Created a vacuum leak tester. Basically used my air compressor to lightly pressurize intake to find vac leaks. Turned out I forgot to plug the two holes where oil injectors used to be. Fixed that. No vac/boost leaks.
-Checked CAS connector. Wired Properly
So I fix all that and.... Still no start.
So I start messing with the req_fuel a bit more.... and just kept adding until I got to 16.0ms. And it fired up! and stayed on (albeit with prodding from the throttle to keep it on at ~2000rpm). It's never stayed on before while the MAP sensor has been hooked up so this is a big success overall for me....
For the life of me I cannot figure out why my req fuel has to be twice of what it should be. I've attached a megalog.
The .msq should be identical to the last .msq I posted except that it read 16.0 req_fuel instead of 8.0 req_fuel.
Again for reference I've been following Aaroncake's guide to megasquirting a rotary. That's where I got the 8.0 from. The built in TunerStudio calculator gives me 7.9ms when I input 4x550cc injectors and 1300cc engine.
I'm hoping I just have a setting somewhere that needs to be fixed. I do still need to try and ground ECU to battery ground @ chassis rather than the engine ECU. I'll be getting to that.
Congrats! IIRC, the required fuel changed with a firmware update since Aaron wrote that writeup. I'm not positive, but you may need to use 2600cc since the rotary fires twice as often as a 4 stroke. If you're able to idle at normal VE numbers, I would leave it at 16ms and move forward. Setup and startup is by far the hardest part of a new MS install.
I think Aaroncake's guide had 2600cc, but based off of what I've read, the newest firmware should only need to see "1300cc". I am running the newest firmware on my MS3Pro so I went with that.
That all being said... I am just gonna try and run with this for now. 16ms req_fuel and the "base" VE table.
Did some more googling... Evidently the 1300cc vs 2600cc only affects the build in calculator for getting Req_fuel... not the tune itself.. hmm
Going back through my .msq ( I really need to upload them before heading off to work), and it turns out I last used 18ms... Not 16ms.
I'm starting to think that despite my injectors spraying when I manually pulse them with a connector attached to a 12v battery, they may be bad. Or not spraying to their full capacity..
So either my RX-7 really likes fuel... or something is up.
Attempted to do a start-up with 38ms req_fuel. Which is insane.... And it fired right up. Like easiest fire up I've had my entire experience since rebuilding the engine. Idle was a little rough, so I upped it to 40ms and it definitely ran smoother. There's some footage of the engine at 38ms req_fuel and you can see how it was a bit rough.
But yeah... it runs almost "normal" like with a super high req_fuel setting. I inputed the deadtime table I could find for the rc engineering sl9-550s. So that's correct. I cross checked all the other inputs with Aaroncake's guide as well. Those look good.
I imagine it has to be the fuel injectors then? I guess they are so blocked that they have to be open for a ridiculous amount of time to get fuel into the engine?
I've attached a zip with .msq and a datalog of the engine running. AFR's look decent, and not far off target IMO.
Duty cycle and pulsewidth is insanely high for low rpm and no load.
I think Aaroncake's guide had 2600cc, but based off of what I've read, the newest firmware should only need to see "1300cc". I am running the newest firmware on my MS3Pro so I went with that.
That all being said... I am just gonna try and run with this for now. 16ms req_fuel and the "base" VE table.
Did some more googling... Evidently the 1300cc vs 2600cc only affects the build in calculator for getting Req_fuel... not the tune itself.. hmm
There was an update awhile bake that fixed the 2600cc, and made it 1300cc.
Got new injectors that were 690cc/min. It was a great deal and I didn't trust my 550cc injectors to still be clean.
Still had the same issues with having to run an insanely high req_fuel to get car to idle.
So I then decided to DIY test the injector flow rate at home.
Basically I had an empty container. Weighed/Tared out the empty container. Ran a set amount of injections. I'll have to check b/c notes are not with me at the moment, but I think I did essentially 15 seconds of injection time.
Weigh out the fuel weight, and then use density of gas to see how much was injected. Multiply by 4 to get my cc/min flow rate.
Sooooo long story short... my 690cc/min injectors were only flowing about 150cc/min. Much much less.... but definitely inline with how high I had to set my req_fuel.
So now I'm wondering if I got ripped off. So I decided to find some answer. I sent two my 550cc primary injectors to RC Engineering for clean/flow test and one 690cc injector for a test only.
Got my results back recently. The 550cc injectors were in bad shape, so a cleaning was definitely worth it. The 690cc injector is indeed 690cc....
So now I'm wondering why my flow rate on my engine is so low.... I know I have fuel pressure. I've replaced in-tank strainer, fuel filter and all rubber fuel lines. When I have a fuel pressure tester attached I have 40psi while idling....
So I'm a bit lost. I know the injectors are good, I know the injectors are getting 12 volts. Fuel pressure is good, which should indicate a good fuel pump, but maybe there's something I'm missing?
I'm considering trying to wipe my MS3Pro so I can re-enter all the settings from scratch. Just to be sure. Is there a way to do that? To completely clear the tune?
I'm also going to get a multimeter to the fuel pump, although it I'm certain it's receiving the proper power since I've rewired it.
So yeah. A bit lost... I know injectors are good. I know fuel lines are clear. I have fuel pressure. I have power to injectors, but I'm not getting the fuel flow I should...
Earlier on I recall reading something about you adding in resistors due to the previous injectors being low-z's. Maybe too obvious, but are your new 690's low-z as well? and if not, are you still running the resistors? Only reason I can think of creating your fuel-flow issue would be in that or an initial mistake setting up engine/injector parameters that you're now just overlooking.
New injectors are high-z bosch ev14s. I removed the resistors from the wiring set-up when I re-did the connectors.
I'm thinking there might be some setting I'm missing somewhere which is why I want to wipe the tune completely from the ms3pro so I can redo the tune, following aaroncake's tune from scratch.
Small update. Been kind of disheartened and lost on what's wrong with the car. Finally got around to attempting a start up.
Checked fuel pump relay, getting a solid 12+ volts to the fuel pump. Which is no surprise since I had proper fuel pressure when I last checked fuel pressure. Also grounded ECU to the battery ground.
Still have the same issues as before while starting and getting engine to run.
I reflashed the ECU's firmware so I'm going to redo the tune from scratch. I'm really hoping there is some setting somewhere that is wrong and It's just been missed somehow.
I have voltage. I have timing. I have new spark plugs. Fuel injector size is verified. Fuel pump outputs proper pressure. Grounds are good. Vac leaks are non existent. I have compression.
Physically everything is there. So I'm hoping it really is just software.
I've attached an attempted startup log with req_fuel at what it should be for 690cc injectors
I've also uploaded a log of the engine running, warmed up, but with req fuel set much higher.
Engine struggles to start and idle without raising req_fuel by a large amount.
Also attahched is the msq I'm currently using. Only difference would be what the req_fuel is set at.
Also I tested out my injector at home. Held it wide open for 20 seconds. Turns out my fuel system is fine.
Fuel pressure is about 43psi, seen in video (running a twin turbo Supra fuel pump).
I start fuel pump and then hold injector wide open for ~20 seconds.
Empty beer bottle was 194.46 grams. Bottle with 20 seconds worth of fuel was 371.51 grams.
So 177.05 grams or 177 grams for 20 seconds of fuel flow.
Assuming a density of petrol of 0.71-77 kg/L or g/ml we flow rates of 689.91 cc/min to 747.88 cc/min.... So yeah. My 690cc injectors are indeed 690cc. Verified by them being sent out for test and test at home.
I have timing as well. Timing checked out via timing light and setting fixed timing to 5 atdc and checking yellow mark on pulley (5 atdc according to Mazda fsm)
I also have compression. I did an overall compression test and both front and rear rotors read ~ 100psi. That's on a rebuilt motor, used housings with no real mileage. Just idling when trying to get engine to work.
I realize that there seems to be one of the rotor faces a little lower than the other. Probably a side seal that needs to wear in (hopefully). Also the compression numbers when looking at pulses are expected to be lower since I'm holding the release valve wide open.
For reference I followed the tunes and wiring laid in Aaroncake's guide
So yeah. I have fuel, spark and compression. I've checked for vac leaks. Built a rubber cap that allows me to pressurize intake system, no leaks. Only thing I can think of is maybe something wrong with injector firing angle? Pulsewidth needs to be so high in order for fuel to actually be injected at the right time?
That or I have some sort of ignition/timing issue. Really not sure.
Thanks! I've been posting on the msextra.com forums as well. Someone pointed out that I apparently have "pw_4x" enable. I didn't even know that was a setting.
I'm going to disable that and see if that changes anything. Fingers crossed!
I dont see anything obviously wrong in the msq that would keep you from getting the car idling so you can start tuning
the pw_4x is under special options. maybe its the culprit. Ive no experience with that
I uploaded my msq so you can have an example of a running tuned(mostly) car.
I would set your AFR table to 12.5 or 13 across the board to get your ve table dialed in. Itll make things much easier.
That timing table is also a little aggressive in my opinion. Every engine is different but 22 vs 26 leading made less than 1 hp difference on my car.
Ill check out the log later, wifey is wanting my attention.
I saw previously there were noise and sync errors noted. Ground seems to typically be the issue there. Its fussy about grounds. Chassis grounds suck.
Sensors get their own sensor ground and should be grounded together
everything else important should ground to the battery. A stud somewhere as a distribution point works also.
Sync errors can be from incorrect cas wiring. Engine will still start....kinda.....So make sure you double check things like that..
edit....just looked at the log. the sync errors arent that bad. I get some on startup also. once it was running the number didnt climb. Thats a good thing! Let us know what happens with the pw_4x thing turned off.
01-11-19, 10:44 PM
update
