(noob) Want megasquirt ECU and E85 (FD3S)
 

(noob) want megasquirt ecu and e85 what do i need. could you make a list

I think what you need most is knowledge of how to use the search feature. Why would you want to use a megasquirt?

I couldn't agree more...

Because they are cheap to buy...

I could spend $50 on an exhaust manifold from Ebay... It'd be cheap, but it would also be a piece of shit. What's your point?

Megasquirts barely belong on carb'd vehicles, DEF not on FDs

I believe there is one megasquirt fd on the forum. Better options out there.

If cheap is your priority then the FD is not for you. Converting to e85 is an expensive affair.

Head over to the Megasquirt forum in the Engine Management section and do a bit of reading. Installing a Megasquirt is like installing any other standalone, really.

MS3 supports E85 using a flex fuel sensor: http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms3/flexfuel.html

The MS has supported the FD crank sensor and ignition since MS1, but MS3 being the newest version with sequential injection and a host of new features, it is the 'Squirt you want to use. You'll need the V3.57 main board, MS3X expander, MS3 daughtercard, and then the typical MS wiring harness as well as the MS3X harness. You can buy all this pre-assembled from DIY AutoTune, no electronics knowledge necessary.

You can control the twin turbos with some work since there are plenty of spare outputs, but as far as I know at the moment there is no plug and play setup for that. You'll have to set it up yourself and experiment a bit.

It sounds like you have a lot of experience with MegaSquirt to be making such a bold statement. I'm eager to hear of exactly what your basis is for this opinion.

MegaSquirt is alright, I had it on my old MX-3 but there isnt really anyone to tune it. And like others have said, theres plenty of other options that are plug and play for the FD. Save up another two weeks or so and get a PowerFC used. It'll save you time, hassle, and everyone tunes it.

Once modifications are in place, what are the advantages to E85 over a relatively simple AI system?

my FC ran 11.42@122mph with a S5 hybrid turbo ,but still gets 9L/100km highway
using MS2 v3 with the zeal daughterboard.
must be working good enough

my sa22c ran 12.345 @ on the brakes, now does consistant 121mph terminals. also using a s5 hybrid turbo (smaller than FC3Sdrift's one)

I use ms2extra and would highly suggest a zeal board (not available when I needed one)

What you 'ran' or dynoed with another model car on a MS system is irrelvant. The OP has an FD.

It is not irrelevant. Engines are engines are engines. They take air and fuel, compress it, spark to ignite it, then exhaust it.

The only thing different about the FD as far as running it is the stock twin turbo setup.

I would use MS3+MS3X to run an FD because you need the I/O. The only reasons I can think of that there aren't more FDs running MS are:

1) FD owners like spending lots of money (the rest of the car is very expensive compared to an FC)
2) FD owners aren't likely to try something nobody else had tried. It isn't like MS won't run an FD engine. FD owners would just rather use what everyone else has already tried. Somebody has to be first.

Give MS a try. I think you'll find our feature set compares favorably with the "other guys." And we are adding more features every day, so if there is something you want that isn't there, ask! If it is possible to do, and other cars can benefit, it is likely I will do it.

Ken

As far as hassle, installing MS3+MS3x is about like installing any other standalone.

Oh really. Take your rotary powered car to any experienced piston mechanic and have him rebuild it, modify it and then tune it. Let us know how that goes.
Yes, and significant difference too.
Smacks of jealousy or insecurity...or both. I think it's safe to say that we don't "like spending lots of money" any more than any other enthusiast. MS is probably a decent system for an FC. But from all I've read and from advice from gurus whose opinions I respect it's not the best value. Price and cost are two different things.
I can live with this. See above and below for additional details.
And last.

And just so everyone on the MS forum understands, this was moved from the 3rd Gen. section. Meaning I didn't come here just to pick a fight.

From an engine control standpoint, a rotary looks just like a 2.6L 4 cyl, so yes, looking at it that way they are the same.

You are right tho, it may not be the best value, depending on what you value. If you want something that you can plug in & it'll work, the megasquirt isn't your best choice. If you want something that will really teach you how engines work & can be controlled, as well as something that will force you to learn a bit about electronics, wiring and programming, then it'll pay for itself.

That is irrelevant. As far as running the engine from the ECU standpoint (the original point of this discussion) an engine is an engine is an engine. Of course you have to tune them, but the process of tuning them is the same all around. There is nothing about the MS3 that makes it incapable of achieving good results with the FD.

It's nothing insurmountable. With the proper documentation (or better yet, access to a stock FD) I could most likely have special code just for the FD twins up and running pretty quickly. That's if it's not possible to just use our Generic Output feature to get it working with the existing firmware. That would of course leave it up to the person installing the MS to know how the stock system works.

No, I'm not jealous. I was simply stating fact. Everything about the FD tends to cost more when compared to the FC.

As far as cost vs value, how about this:

You can trust your Gurus and spend a lot of money on a PowerFC or whatever it is you want to use, let someone else do your install, and maybe you'll be happy that way. (If you are that's fine, to each his own).

If you actually want to know how it all works and learn to tune it yourself (which provides a LOT more benefits. I can't remember the number of times I've fixed problems on peoples' PowerFCs, Hydras, using the knowledge I gained from tuning MS installs), MS is the best system out there for that. Knowing how to do it all yourself is far more valuable than taking it to someone else and spending a lot of money to let them set it up IMO.

As far as being able to run the engine and get a good tune, the MS3 is as capable as just about any other system out there, and if there's something you think it should do that it doesn't currently do, I can add that feature.

There weren't really any details. No hard evidence of any kind to support the MS bashing.

It doesn't really matter. The way I see it so far there has not been any real evidence against using the MS on the FD engine. I encourage the OP to choose for himself. If he does go with the MS3, I'll be happy to help him.

To answer the OP's question:

As far as running on e85 goes, If you plan on only running e85 you don't really need anything special from the MS side. Converting the fuel system to run with E85 is a pain as I understand it though.

If you want to be able to run E85 *and* regular gasoline, the MS gives you several options for that. We currently support flex-fuel sensors to sense the amount of ethanol vs gasoline and respond accordingly as far as the amount of fuel injected and ignition timing. I'm in the process of adding the ability to use that sensor's output to change boost control targets as well. You can also run switchable tables, and just flip a switch when you want to switch fuels. There are other options as well, but those are probably the easiest.

Ken

I found this to be a bit comical. How many FD drivers do you think could "rebuild it, modify it and then tune it." Let us know how that goes!


There is nothing wrong with plug and play. It has it's place fulfilling a significant void between stock and real performance. There is also something to be said for having a shop set you up for a "safe tune".

I have run the accel and Haltech ecu set ups. So I can't talk about the others. I prefer the UNLIMITED capabilities of the Megasquirt varieties.

Cheap doesn't make it junk!

I'm glad. And your easily entertained.
With exception of tuning...probably most of us who've owned the car for more than a couple years. I have. It went great.
But you make no sense. What is your point? When I said it I was referring to the average piston mechanic that would be lost on a rotary engine. Hell, I really wouldn't trust a MAZDA tech with my car. Most of them were in grade school when these cars were new and have never seen one. And there's little cross-over from a Renesis beyond basic short block stuff.
I agree. I installed my own PFC, set idle and had my car running better than the stock ECU in about 45 minutes. Plug and play. As I understand it, that's not the case with Megasquirt on an FD.
There's that old but naggingly true addage...you have fast, cheap and reliable.......pick two'.

IMHO there is simply a better option for the OP than a MS system.

IT depends on what he wants. Really needs to be up to him.

Our job is to tell him the options in a non-biased manner and let him choose.

My problem was that all the responses from the FD owners were not "non-biased."

Ken

I have been running a Power FC for about 7 years and although its good, it does have it limits not to mention having to run through a 20 year old wiring loom.... My track fd which im building I am looking at running a Microtech and my mates S14 Nissan Silvia which we are dropping a 13BT engine out of a series 5 (or TII) into, i am looking at the MegaSquirt or Microtech ECU. To be fair tho, the deciding factor will be budget but I am eager to see the abilities of the MegaSquirt as it is an unknown brand here in New Zealand..

EVERY ECU maker always started somewhere (usually right at the bottom) and people doubted the now "trusted" ones in their early days too im sure, hell i know of some brands that are bagged constantly but people still stand by them today, they must be good for someone.... Which reminds me of something a guy i know said to me:

"An ECU is only as good as the person tuning it"

Id be keen to try a MegaSquirt but in saying that, its an "unknown" product here in New Zealand and people do tend to stay with proven products but the new guys need a chance to prove themselves too...

all that megasquirt needs for credibility is a nice orange anodized box with heat sink fins and you can bump up the price to 1600$:)

i have used it on a dozen cars and it works better than my haltech, (i hate it by the way, my haltech i mean).

So, the Megasquirt ECU is not that popular with the FD crowd, why not?

How many are out there using MS?

I think it's a "chicken and egg" problem.

There aren't many (any) using the MS on FD because nobody has tried it. Nobody is willing to be first.

Ken

One example is the recent exchange in this thread about how to get it to operate the FD OMP (which is rpm and load dependent). Such a discussion involving the PFC would be unnecessary as it will run it just as the stock ECU. As I understand it, there are also issues with the type of CAS the FD runs, which is different than earlier 7's. Again, probably not an insurmountable hurdle, but unnecessary with a PFC (and other standalones).
But it has been tried. Probably others, but from a quick search...... https://www.rx7club.com/megasquirt-forum-153/squirted-fd-project-459133/
That thread went from September 2005 to May 2006 (over 1.5 years) and he was still working on it. Then he apparently quit as there were no further updates despite requests for one. The OP in that thread was last on the board in October 2011.
A guy in my area has been trying to install it with a build that's currently lasted over two years. He's also trying to do E85 which is another thing that seems pointless, especially with the available AI systems now. Regardless, I'm not sure where he's at with either one.