To MS or not to MS
 

88 turbo II

planned setup
750 primaries,
1600 secondaries
t61 turbo 20psi
stock ignition with msd ( would like to run individual msd coils if I could)
Greddy fmic (am thinking about an efan for this)
koyo rad
3 in single exhaust
no emissions
no ac
no ps
manual boost controller (would like to operate a boost solenoid)
wideband kit would like to record this)
egt kit ( would like to record this)
turbo timer (I have this now but would like to integrate it if possible)
Anti-lag /launch control (would like this to be integrated)
44mm waste gate

Shooting for 400whp would like to eventually make 500whp

I have some experience and am going experience with embedded controllers and c programing.
I have no problem soldering everything together.
I looked at the c code for the ms and was able to follow most of it.

Other features I am looking for are:

-automatic boost adjustment based on air temperature
-rev limiter (ignition or fuel or both)
-I would also like to send direct voltage to my secondary fuel pump at a certain boost level.

can all this be done?
Is it likely I could do it.
I feel I could do the basic setup of fuel and timing control, but it is the other features I am not sure about.

I know the haltech E8 can do most of this but why should I pay so much more if I can get all the same features for a fraction of the price.

Another determining factor is time, how long does it generally take to build one of these for a guy like me.

Thanks

ms2/extra has launch control but not anti-lag. We do have flat-shift though, which can keep boost up on shifts.

None of the MS firmwares can make the MS a turbo-timer.

We have boost control, although I'm working on some changes to make it easier to tune (some of the PID math is wrong).

I think we can do most if not all of what you ask for there though.

We don't have this. This is the first time I can recall being asked for this feature. I assume since you're running a manual boost controller, you mean automatic overboost limit based on MAT?

We have this.

This depends on how creative you want to be about wiring your pump. If you wire it through a power resistor that limits the voltage, then wire a bypass setup to the MS so that it bypasses the resistor when the relay is switched, and have the MS controlling it based on RPM or boost or something of that nature, then you can do it. There is no continuously variable PWM fuel-pump control on any current MSs, although that's planned for ms3.


That really depends. If I do the whole build myself start to finish, I can usually go from kit to running car in a day (with my plug 'n play stock-harness adapter).

If you're good at soldering, the MS + the mods to it will probably take 4-6 hrs.

Ken

So it should be good for my 500whp goal

for the turbo timer would it be as easy as

while (ignition_switch == 0 && parking_brake == 1)
{
turbo_timer();
}



and then just create a delay function called turbo_timer that counts overflows of a clock and and while overflows is less than a certain number output 12v to the main relay of the car.

Except then you'd have the MS cutting its own power... I'm not sure that would work. How would you power the transistor that controls the main relay if the transistor that controls whether the MS has power (from the main relay) is IN the MS?

Also, the MS doesn't have inputs for the ignition switch or the parking brake.

Ken

The MS can support any amount of power you want, just like any other standalone.

There are people running it on engines of 1200+ HP.

It doesn't matter what standalone you run as long as it puts the amount of fuel in the engine that you tell it to, and fires the spark plugs with the timing you tell it to, it'll work.

The MS (as with any other standalone) won't create horsepower for you, but if the engine setup is mechanically and physically good for 500 HP (ports are right, turbo is sized right, exhaust, injectors, etc...), then the MS with proper tuning will allow you to reach that goal just as well as any other standalone (assuming of course it was built correctly, with the proper mods, and wiring).

Ken

Use the nitro settings for anti lag, i had a 50 shot on my setup and it worked good. megasquirt will tell it to spray until a set manifold pressure limit is met than will shut it off and let the turbo take over, and you can run a dry shot and have megasquirt run the fuel injectors to make up for it.

If your a wrench turning computer geek megasquirt is for you!

So are you saying there are no extra inputs or just that there aren't any that haven't been called ignition_switch and parking_brake.


I don't see how it wouldn't work, unless for some reason it couldn't have a hard shutdown?
Ok so your ignition switch will give the normal running power to close the relay, once the ignition switch stops giving the power (we'll forget about the parking brake for now) then it goes into the turbo_timer function which just sends power via an output to the main relay and then delays then turns that output off.

Yes it is still getting its power from the main relay but it wont be once it opens that relay.

Maybe I am thinking about this wrong or missing something obvious but it makes sense to me.

That's cool, I was just a bit worried since this is going to be a pretty high strung engine and if any little thing goes wrong its all over.

Thanks

so are you saying you use nitrous as a form of anti lag instead, interesting.

I was talking about a two step rev limiter but that works too.

Also arent you worried about that blowing up... NAWWWWSSSS LOL.

When the ignition is cut, the power relay drops out.

do you mean between the 2 positions on the switch, because that can easily be solved by just running that output all the time then delay once in the function then once the delay is over cut power to that output

The MS gets its power from the main relay. If the MS has a transistor that's hooked to that relay determining if it gets power or not, you've got a problem. The MS won't turn on its transistor unless it has power, but it can't get power because the relay that provides it power won't turn on (since it's hooked to the transistor in the MS instead of the ignition key. You'll turn the ignition key, which will no longer switch on the main relay, which will keep the MS from getting power, which will keep the MS from turning the main relay on.

You would probably have to keep the MS powered all the time from a direct connection to the battery, but the MS was not designed to be on all the time without a running engine.

Ken

idk why but it just gave me a super repost

Im 90% sure im going to go with the MS

So i need, the ms2 kit
a stimulator
a com cable
a TPS
a Air temp sensor
a coolant temp sensor
the unterminated wirng
some terminations
a boost control solonoid

anything else?

palm for street tuning/monitor, old laptop.

You can use all of the stock sensors on a rotary, just got to Easyterm. TPS use the newer type but even the old ones will work.

i need to buy an extra circuit for the electronic boost control right?

I have been reading but I'm not sure, what do I need so I dont have to modify my cas?

You need to keep a close eye on your AFR's when doing this, deciding on what jets to use are very important, start small and see what results you get. If your unsure of how to make megasquirt run fuel just get a foger setup. And as with any nitro application it is dangerous to some degree, just be carefull, dont take big steps, and you wont melt a rotor.

there is a number of ways to do this . there is a bit of info on the dual vr setup in the FAQ depending on your setup.

i went with this setup for the most part and had to just buy the extra board to be able to attain the lm1815.
here is the link to the vr mock up on the proto area
http://stuff.pw.cx/Megasquirt%20MS2%...azda%20CAS.pdf

and the lm1815 board as to which i am doing instead of building it on the proto area. which you dont have to do it this way. its just another way at looking at it . they all work one in the same.
http://www.jbperf.com/dual_VR/index.html#Buy

Thanks for that pdf it was very informative.

you said you had to buy an extra board to attain the lm1815
Are you saying you bought some extra board and took the lm1815 off of it and you are putting that IC on the extra vr board you are buying?

Im just a bit confused, cant you just buy the lm1815 and either build it in the proto area or build it on the extra vr board?

Yea, you can buy the LM1815 and build the circuit for it in the prototype area. This is how I have mine set up. Conversely, you can buy the LM1815 and that board (if you're using a V3.0 megasquirt PCB - the blue one - you only need half that board), and that gives you all the specific traces and locations for all the ancillary components. However, this other board does NOT come with the LM1815; you need to buy that separately through digikey or some other electronics supplier.

Thanks for all of your feedback,

are there any advantages of the jimstim over the regular stimulator other than the toothed wheel simulator.

The stimulator is just for testing right?

The jimstim will let you set up the stim to act exactly like the CAS does. This can help when debugging on-car problems, because you can tell if your settings are right or not. Then that'll let you rule out settings as the cause of a problem, and look at wiring, etc...

Ken

Thanks man,

Im going to get the whole setup as soon as I get paid.

I have been getting alot of information from the DIY autotune site. Are they a good place to buy from as well, or is there a better place?