Megasquirt GSL-SE MS1 V3.0 - Basic setup help
11-07-17, 07:41 AM
#1
GSL-SE MS1 V3.0 - Basic setup help
The car is an 84 gsl-se with a large street port. It is also a race car so hopefully that makes things easier to run a simplified setup.
What I need help with is planning what the setup should be. I am not an electronics guy but I get the basics, so sorry if my terminology is bad. Also, I have been searching but the information is so varied and often troubleshooting very specific issues so I am hoping here to sus out the basics.
1. I will be switching to an s4 intake manifold, so I will be using 4 injectors. (performance benefit over stock 2 gsl-se injectors?) It was suggested by someone I use rx8 injectors as they are high impedance. Does this make sense? Is there a better option?
2. What should I do with ignition? I know I can leave it to the distributor but it will have to be locked to give constant signal for the tach to the MS. I figured if I am going to be locking the dizzy and sending the signal to the MS anyway, why not use it for ignition as well? I was thinking EDIS, since people seem to use this in conversions in the 1st gen forum. I figure being able to program my spark in the MS will give me potentially better tuning than just a locked dizzy. Is this a bad assumption?
- I realize with the MS1 and to keep things simple I will only be able to run leading spark. I have been told that at high rev racing situations there is pretty much no effect to losing trailing spark so I'd be ok with that.
Am I off base here? Do I need to be considering anything else? Again, this is my enduro racer / trackday car so I'm not as concerned with idling etc.
Also, I will but a wideband sensor in my header... if that makes any difference.
I want to start assembling my squirt! If I trigger off the distributor and only use leading ignition, I don't need to do any special reconfiguration correct? A la Aaron Cakes write up
Thanks so much for any help. I'm drowning in the options detailed in the megamanual!
What I need help with is planning what the setup should be. I am not an electronics guy but I get the basics, so sorry if my terminology is bad. Also, I have been searching but the information is so varied and often troubleshooting very specific issues so I am hoping here to sus out the basics.
1. I will be switching to an s4 intake manifold, so I will be using 4 injectors. (performance benefit over stock 2 gsl-se injectors?) It was suggested by someone I use rx8 injectors as they are high impedance. Does this make sense? Is there a better option?
2. What should I do with ignition? I know I can leave it to the distributor but it will have to be locked to give constant signal for the tach to the MS. I figured if I am going to be locking the dizzy and sending the signal to the MS anyway, why not use it for ignition as well? I was thinking EDIS, since people seem to use this in conversions in the 1st gen forum. I figure being able to program my spark in the MS will give me potentially better tuning than just a locked dizzy. Is this a bad assumption?
- I realize with the MS1 and to keep things simple I will only be able to run leading spark. I have been told that at high rev racing situations there is pretty much no effect to losing trailing spark so I'd be ok with that.
Am I off base here? Do I need to be considering anything else? Again, this is my enduro racer / trackday car so I'm not as concerned with idling etc.
Also, I will but a wideband sensor in my header... if that makes any difference.
I want to start assembling my squirt! If I trigger off the distributor and only use leading ignition, I don't need to do any special reconfiguration correct? A la Aaron Cakes write up
Thanks so much for any help. I'm drowning in the options detailed in the megamanual!
11-11-17, 10:05 AM
#4
Engine, Not Motor
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What I need help with is planning what the setup should be. I am not an electronics guy but I get the basics, so sorry if my terminology is bad. Also, I have been searching but the information is so varied and often troubleshooting very specific issues so I am hoping here to sus out the basics.
I would really recommend MS2 on V3.5 if you aren't an electronics person. A little higher cost, yes, but the MS2 firmware is light years more capable than the MS1 and the V3.5 board contains a few improvements plus is ready for MS3 if you choose to go that direction.
1. I will be switching to an s4 intake manifold, so I will be using 4 injectors. (performance benefit over stock 2 gsl-se injectors?) It was suggested by someone I use rx8 injectors as they are high impedance. Does this make sense? Is there a better option?
Mazda didn't swap to 4 injectors for a performance benefit, they did it to allow better control at light loads by using smaller injectors, yet still having the fuel for higher loads. So the 4 injectors themselves won't automatically create a performance benefit.
Yes, RX-8 460CC injectors are an excellent choice. The Megasquirt has always preferred high impedance injectors and the RX-8 units fit directly into the manifold/block. They are a modern disk style injector which offers far better control at low pulsewidths. Plus they are not 40 years old.
2. What should I do with ignition? I know I can leave it to the distributor but it will have to be locked to give constant signal for the tach to the MS. I figured if I am going to be locking the dizzy and sending the signal to the MS anyway, why not use it for ignition as well? I was thinking EDIS, since people seem to use this in conversions in the 1st gen forum. I figure being able to program my spark in the MS will give me potentially better tuning than just a locked dizzy. Is this a bad assumption?
- I realize with the MS1 and to keep things simple I will only be able to run leading spark. I have been told that at high rev racing situations there is pretty much no effect to losing trailing spark so I'd be ok with that.
- I realize with the MS1 and to keep things simple I will only be able to run leading spark. I have been told that at high rev racing situations there is pretty much no effect to losing trailing spark so I'd be ok with that.
My recommendation for ignition is to do one of two things:
1. Leave the dizzy in place and trigger the MS via the leading coil, running the MS fuel only. The advantage is that it's damn easy. The disadvantage is that you don't get ignition control on the MS and tuning ignition is old school swapping springs and weights.
2. Use the MS to control FC coils or 4 x direct fire coils. You'll have full ignition control in the MS. Plus more powerful coils than on the SE ignition. You'll need a trigger wheel which supplies both RPM and engine position which means either running the FC CAS or swapping to a trigger wheel like the Full Function Engineering setup. The CAS has two wheels and thus requires either the addition of a 2nd VR conditioner via a circuit, or a daughter card. The FFE trigger is a single signal so the V3.5 board can process it directly.
However if ALL you want to do is run leading spark, then all you need is an ignition trigger and a coil output. Gut the dizzy and lock it so that it contains only the trigger. Connect to ignition input of MS. Connect coil to coil output and configure ignition as 4 cylinder.
Also, I will but a wideband sensor in my header... if that makes any difference.
I want to start assembling my squirt! If I trigger off the distributor and only use leading ignition, I don't need to do any special reconfiguration correct? A la Aaron Cakes write up
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wallyrx7 (11-13-17)
11-13-17, 05:08 PM
#5
Is there a reason you are going to run MS1 V3?
I would really recommend MS2 on V3.5 if you aren't an electronics person. A little higher cost, yes, but the MS2 firmware is light years more capable than the MS1 and the V3.5 board contains a few improvements plus is ready for MS3 if you choose to go that direction.
1. I bought an MS1 v3.0 because it was the only kit for sale on Amazon, which I used gift cards to pay for. Also I wanted to keep things simple and thought this would keep me in check. As with all projects, the scope has since increased.
2.After much soul searching I am going to pony up for an MS2 daughter board. So, now we are dealing with an MS2!
The S4 intake is definitely an improvement over the GSL-SE, and was a bit part of the power increase from the SE to the FC. But keep in mind the S4 lower intake doesn't fit the SE block, and the S4 upper doesn't fit the GSL-SE lower. You'll need to make an adapter plate.
I have done my research on this and my plan is to use s4 gasket and then jb-weld-sculpt a smooth transition to the smaller GSL-SE ports.
Mazda didn't swap to 4 injectors for a performance benefit, they did it to allow better control at light loads by using smaller injectors, yet still having the fuel for higher loads. So the 4 injectors themselves won't automatically create a performance benefit.
Yeah I figured that was the case but if I do an S4 intake, I may as well get 4 rx8 injectors.
Yes, RX-8 460CC injectors are an excellent choice. The Megasquirt has always preferred high impedance injectors and the RX-8 units fit directly into the manifold/block. They are a modern disk style injector which offers far better control at low pulsewidths. Plus they are not 40 years old.
Why would you be locking the dizzy?
-I misunderstood how the signal was sent to MS. I currently have an autometer tach running off leading coil ground... not sure why I thought this would be different.
My recommendation for ignition is to do one of two things:
1. Leave the dizzy in place and trigger the MS via the leading coil, running the MS fuel only. The advantage is that it's damn easy. The disadvantage is that you don't get ignition control on the MS and tuning ignition is old school swapping springs and weights.
2. Use the MS to control FC coils or 4 x direct fire coils. You'll have full ignition control in the MS. Plus more powerful coils than on the SE ignition. You'll need a trigger wheel which supplies both RPM and engine position which means either running the FC CAS or swapping to a trigger wheel like the Full Function Engineering setup. The CAS has two wheels and thus requires either the addition of a 2nd VR conditioner via a circuit, or a daughter card. The FFE trigger is a single signal so the V3.5 board can process it directly.
However if ALL you want to do is run leading spark, then all you need is an ignition trigger and a coil output. Gut the dizzy and lock it so that it contains only the trigger. Connect to ignition input of MS. Connect coil to coil output and configure ignition as 4 cylinder.
OK, I have been really lost on the ignition thing. I sat down this past Saturday and just read the whole msextra manual and I think I have a better idea of how the different systems work now.
My new plan (with ugrading to an MS2) is the following
1. Use a generic (diyautotune) 36-1 wheel on the front pulley, with a hall effect sensor. This should be fairly easy to fab up a bracket and center the wheel on the 4 bolt holes that hold the pulley on. The FFE wheel looks very nice but $300 bucks is too much $$ for my overall project budget. Not saying it's not a great piece, just not for my budget build.
2: Setup the MS for 4 ignition outputs, and then run 4 ls1/ls2 individual coils. Set the MS to "rx8 mode" and I should be good to go. I have to be honest, this seems like not only the simplest solution, but not any more expensive than using any other ignition setup, after you get modules and coils etc.
I would really recommend MS2 on V3.5 if you aren't an electronics person. A little higher cost, yes, but the MS2 firmware is light years more capable than the MS1 and the V3.5 board contains a few improvements plus is ready for MS3 if you choose to go that direction.
1. I bought an MS1 v3.0 because it was the only kit for sale on Amazon, which I used gift cards to pay for. Also I wanted to keep things simple and thought this would keep me in check. As with all projects, the scope has since increased.
2.After much soul searching I am going to pony up for an MS2 daughter board. So, now we are dealing with an MS2!
The S4 intake is definitely an improvement over the GSL-SE, and was a bit part of the power increase from the SE to the FC. But keep in mind the S4 lower intake doesn't fit the SE block, and the S4 upper doesn't fit the GSL-SE lower. You'll need to make an adapter plate.
I have done my research on this and my plan is to use s4 gasket and then jb-weld-sculpt a smooth transition to the smaller GSL-SE ports.
Mazda didn't swap to 4 injectors for a performance benefit, they did it to allow better control at light loads by using smaller injectors, yet still having the fuel for higher loads. So the 4 injectors themselves won't automatically create a performance benefit.
Yeah I figured that was the case but if I do an S4 intake, I may as well get 4 rx8 injectors.
Yes, RX-8 460CC injectors are an excellent choice. The Megasquirt has always preferred high impedance injectors and the RX-8 units fit directly into the manifold/block. They are a modern disk style injector which offers far better control at low pulsewidths. Plus they are not 40 years old.
Why would you be locking the dizzy?
-I misunderstood how the signal was sent to MS. I currently have an autometer tach running off leading coil ground... not sure why I thought this would be different.
My recommendation for ignition is to do one of two things:
1. Leave the dizzy in place and trigger the MS via the leading coil, running the MS fuel only. The advantage is that it's damn easy. The disadvantage is that you don't get ignition control on the MS and tuning ignition is old school swapping springs and weights.
2. Use the MS to control FC coils or 4 x direct fire coils. You'll have full ignition control in the MS. Plus more powerful coils than on the SE ignition. You'll need a trigger wheel which supplies both RPM and engine position which means either running the FC CAS or swapping to a trigger wheel like the Full Function Engineering setup. The CAS has two wheels and thus requires either the addition of a 2nd VR conditioner via a circuit, or a daughter card. The FFE trigger is a single signal so the V3.5 board can process it directly.
However if ALL you want to do is run leading spark, then all you need is an ignition trigger and a coil output. Gut the dizzy and lock it so that it contains only the trigger. Connect to ignition input of MS. Connect coil to coil output and configure ignition as 4 cylinder.
OK, I have been really lost on the ignition thing. I sat down this past Saturday and just read the whole msextra manual and I think I have a better idea of how the different systems work now.
My new plan (with ugrading to an MS2) is the following
1. Use a generic (diyautotune) 36-1 wheel on the front pulley, with a hall effect sensor. This should be fairly easy to fab up a bracket and center the wheel on the 4 bolt holes that hold the pulley on. The FFE wheel looks very nice but $300 bucks is too much $$ for my overall project budget. Not saying it's not a great piece, just not for my budget build.
2: Setup the MS for 4 ignition outputs, and then run 4 ls1/ls2 individual coils. Set the MS to "rx8 mode" and I should be good to go. I have to be honest, this seems like not only the simplest solution, but not any more expensive than using any other ignition setup, after you get modules and coils etc.
11-18-17, 10:10 AM
#6
Engine, Not Motor
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MS2 is a good choice because it has many of the software features of the MS3, and to be honest, the MS1 processor was overtaxed running a rotary. There were some weird quirks like no trailing ignition under 1000 RPM.
A generic wheel is a good way to go. Fairly easy to adapt to the pulley as you mention.
I've actually Megasquirted a number of GSL-SEs, I think 5, in various combinations of fuel only with a dizzy to full 2nd gen ignition to coil on plug.
In my opinion it's hard to go wrong with 2nd gen coils .They are readily available, reliable and strong.
A generic wheel is a good way to go. Fairly easy to adapt to the pulley as you mention.
I've actually Megasquirted a number of GSL-SEs, I think 5, in various combinations of fuel only with a dizzy to full 2nd gen ignition to coil on plug.
In my opinion it's hard to go wrong with 2nd gen coils .They are readily available, reliable and strong.