HID Choices?
 

I have been looking for some HID's for my car. I tried searching google, youtube, amazon reviews, and on the forum but seem to get mixed results.

I found that most people like the DDM tuning HID's because they are cheap and have an actual warranty. But have no say in the matter as this is the internet. I know it is all china crap most likely, but have nothing to go off of because they show up in many searches.

What brand or setup is recommended guys? Something less or around 100 bucks would be great.

Thanks

Sorry, but for $100, it can't be done safely nor properly. You can't just install retrofitted HIDs into a reflector lens and have it work. You'll end up blinding oncoming traffic and having unusable light for yourself.

To do it right (not legal but proper light output) go to The Retrofit Source online: headlight upgrades for all applications and look at the SakeBomb retrofit page and copy what they did. Or better yet, they are running a GB right now.

Or even better (yes, I am biased) wait for the soon to be announced GB for the "David Hayes" sleepy eye retrofits. These use Hella HID modules which are DOT legal.

Got any more info on this? ie: pics :)

^Superdan50 is just about ready to release the GB information based on my retrofit which can be found here:

https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generati...ersion-879394/

FYI, my lights in the pics were pretty far off of adjustment in the pics but you get the idea. I am not involved in the sale of the kit, but have helped Dan along the way by sending in my pieces so he could then engineer a better design based on my one-off stuff.

Dan enlisted Ken at Shine Auto to make the shrouds out of carbon fiber and he's going to soon send me a sample kit to install and test against my one-off. This should happen any day.

I would guess he's going to post up info on this shortly.

Sorry David Hayes, but I gotta disagree with you about using a retrofit kit. While approaching it the proper way (such as SakeBomb Garage's kit) will certainly do the job in the correct, DOT-approved manner, do recall Icemark's comparison thread in the Second Gen section.

Pretty sure the pics are gone (check for yourself to be certain), but I clearly recall that he took pictures of stock 6054s, Sylvania Silverstar 6054s, a cheap ebay H4 housing with a H4 HID conversion kit and a GOOD H4 conversion (either Hella or Cibie, can't recall which) housing with H4 HID kit

The thread clearly showed that the difference was almost entirely in the housings. The ebay housings with the HID kit put quite a bit of the light in a directly in front and scattered the remainder everywhere. In contrast, the GOOD H4 housing with the same HID kit had even light output across the whole width, a crisp cutoff and visible kickup on the right-hand side.

In regard to DDM Tuning's kits, I've seen a demonstration of one in a Honda Insight (H11 bulbs) on youtube here: Look carefully at the beam pattern and you'll see pretty much the same thing as Icemark illustrated in the aforementioned thread. Granted, the Insight uses a projector housing, but that is the reason why the beam pattern is so clearly defined.

A good housing will make it clean and work well. A cheap one will make it crap. The housing is the key to success.

David, I dont think the "David Hayes" sleepy eye kit will work in a 1970 VW beattle (look at the OP's sig), I could be wrong though:scratch:. That would be one versatile kit.


And I agree with Akagis_white_comet it is the housing that makes the difference. One would need to find a housing that is designed for HID bulbs, it does not need to be a projector housing to work.

Well we will agree to disagree. For $100 and without a projector based setup it's a big "no" for me. It just can't be done and even with what you describe should not be attempted. There is a reason it's illegal. Correct beam pattern cannot be accomplished with a reflector setup, period. The physics of hid versus halogen light filaments are not the same thus making it impossible

There are hundreds of examples of hid retrofits in reflector housings via a quick search and none are safe. There's even a thread right now on this forum with a member that sourced "proper" housings and PIAA hids only to end up with a bad light pattern.

No chance to do this and end up with a safe and good light pattern.

And the video you show is of a projector based setup which kind of proves my point.

And knowing its going into a Bug albeit a cool one doesn't change the analysis. Hella makes a bunch of HID options that might work but they are not made for driving they are rally or fog lights. Note they say off road use only. There is a reason for that :)

The only safe hid reflector is one that came on the car from factory. They use special d2r bulbs and the optics are completely different from a halogen reflector.

I have read icemark's thread and even though he had done a lot for the forum I have to go against his information. It is impossible to have a proper beam pattern in a halogen based reflector or even projector. A hid capsule has two hotspots while a halogen has one so the hid capsule can never be aligned with a halogen based reflector/projector. He also only did test of how much light output there was no one is arguing that hids are dimmer. Its the fact that hids in halogen lights cause unwanted glare and light in wrong areas.

Check in the fd section where someone bought e-codes and stuck a hid kit in it even though it does have a noticeable cutoff it has a ton of glare above the cutoff and too much light in the foreground.

^ What he said.

Now here is something to consider for the OP, a 7 inch round HID projector setup:

Web Store - Sick HIDs

And a pic of the setup:

https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...1&d=1343402271

Video:


What I question is the cutoff on the system and is it proper as the site doesn't show it in pics or videos. Might be worth looking into as it's pretty cool and I think his Bug runs 7 inch round units. He offers several different models.

Those are mini h1 projectors.

^ So good cutoff?

Yep I have them in my miata the only thing i don't like about them is they use a h1 base. But that should be changed eventually.

Hmm I will look into those universals/proper housing for HID's etc. It was just an idea as the older bug technology is fine just not great. And I looked into retrofit and it seems like a lot of work for some lights that may or may not come out perfect. SO I take it there are projectors designed for HID's and projectors designed for Halogens correct?

Here's my prototype Miata setup using 7" rounds :) :
http://makeagif.com/media/8-03-2012/5Z14Es.gif

I've got a shelf full of 7" prototypes but they're quite long so you've got to have decent clearance behind the lights to clear it all. For the Miata I've got it down to a science (err maybe art?) with .5mm clearance front and rear using a proper philips d2s bulb. :icon_tup:
-Heath

http://i723.photobucket.com/albums/w...s/DSC03234.jpg

No there are some halogen projectors and some HID reflectors... it's a little confusing but for for the most part HID = projectors, and halogen = reflectors but it's not a cut and dry subject. Please feel free to ask any questions you've got and I'll try to answer them. I've done a two years of research on the subject awaiting publication and we sell these things like hot cakes :icon_tup:

That's what I'm talking about for the OP. You are right though a out the depth potentially being an issue. How deep are they? It's been forever since I owned my 69 Bug but if I recall correctly then there is not much room to play with.

Get some truck lite led lights. Cheeper than a ghetto hid retrofit. Dot approved made in the usa aluminum housing and poly carbonate lenses. Draws 3 amps on highbeam.

If the hid retrofit is done on your own then it is not cheaper. Plus the beam patterns on those are horrid.

If done right retrofit is not ghetto, which will only run you around $300.

But you spend the extra time and money. Possibly mess up once and have to start over. Or put a little more money and get DOT approved headlights that draw less current and wont blind people from improper beam pattern. Also they are a direct fit no need to cut your headlight buckets for clearance.

A retrofit has a proper beam pattern that is why it is done in the first place. They are not hard to make just very time consuming it is hard to mess up beyond the point of no return. Also 99% of the retrofits require no cutting of the car I am sure a beetle has a ton of room behind the headlight.

My apoligies I was thinking first gen with the flip ups.

What is interesting is that they do make the 7 inch LED round headlights. That's cool, but what is not good is they are rated at 550 "effective" lumens. That is about 1/2 to 1/3 of the output of a halogen unit. Based on this, just can't see how they would be a good choice.

I'm all about using LEDs and have them all over the car and I love the Audi LED headlights, but I'd stay away from these until the brightness improves and the beam pattern is confirmed.

Yup it looks like they're half the output of standard halogen based on various tests I've seen ::insert sarcasm:: (one linked below). :scratch:

LED headlight upgrade | Pro Pickup
Exposure settings not listed, but looks to me like the LED units are significantly better.

How can a DOT compliant headlight 1/2 the output of a standard unit!? DOT wouldn't approve something that isn't safe for use on the road would they!?
:dunno:

It should also be noted that usable light output is more than just a simple lumen number. Those LED units look like a great idea as an alternative to HID, especially where space is a concern. The LED units look no deeper than a standard halogen headlight assembly. But I can't say for sure because I've never seen one in person.

I have however, ridden in/drove Heaths Miata with our prototype bi-xenons and holy cow can you see at night time! We went blasting down Rt.9 from Santa Cruz and had no problems seeing far far ahead. Feel free to contact SBgarage or RotorMotor if you're interested in a set :)

-Dan

Those are the old version I have seen those on a local jeep around here the beam pattern is very uneven, a lot of hot spots in that one. They do have a new version which is a little better but the beam pattern still need some work but I have not seen those in person just pictures.

It'll get there I'm sure. I'll stick to HID for now :)

Depth depends on connectors. I had some custom d2s bulb connectors produced specifically for the space limitations of the Miata. Space limitations can be dealt with if you're willing to go to an h1 style bulb as the entire assembly does not stick out as far, though you're forced to use aftermarket bulbs. If you want the BEST lighting, OEM d2s bubs will have the best output, though other setups will provide decent lighting (though there's some hot / dark spotting with most of the aftermarket setups I've seen). Depends how deep you want to get into this retrofit stuff...

Regarding LED's... the technology has a long ways to go as far as aftermarket lighting. Go buy a new Mercedes and you'll see what LED's can do, but for the aftermarket it's many years out... the aftermarket is still just getting caught up on HID technology (just look at the crap out there for sale and the amounts of misinformation regarding HID's). Eventually there will be LED lighting retrofits, but the current options are highly lacking. Just look at the pictures in that link... lots of throw, no beam width. There's a ton of hot spotting, lots of long distance and foreground lighting but a lack of mid ground lighting. Really for me the width and evenness is what makes a quality lighting system. I've got some great LED flashlights that do this whole "spot lighting" thing way more effectively ;) but on the road you want to illuminate your whole visual scene (without blinding others)... that's the entire point of headlights.

You might want to read my post and then your article before commenting.

My comment was the LEDs appear to be 1/3 to 1/2 the light output of a "halogen" headlight. You then post up an article comparing the LEDs to "non-halogen" bulbs. From your article:

"With safety and night vision in mind, we tried out the new DOT-legal LED headlights from Truck-Lite (http://www.trucklite.com/), comparing them against a pair of conventional (non-halogen) headlights in a 2006 Peterbilt 379 towing an empty 35-foot Travis Dump trailer."

Note the "non-halogen" part of the article? I am sure those LED units are better than very old non-halogen technology. Apparently tungsten was the product of choice before halogen, but that's not the point here is it? It's a comparison of the LEDs to halogen units, or the standard outside of the HID based units. Read my post again and this time comprehend the "halogen" part.

So what are the average light output of halogen headlights? Of course this varies but in general:

ALI: The XENON Headlight Issue

Older units are around 1,000 lumens and newer units are about 1,500 lumens. So do the math and you'll see (pun intended) that my comment is correct.

And if that is not enough, read this for a review:

Hummer goes for LED headlights!!!!!!

Or the Cliff Notes version:

"are you guys serious? ok, if you can post beamshots to prove me wrong, go ahead, but these things are nothing more than a few LEDs at spot and a few LEDs with a wide-angle optic. Nothing special. You could make one yourself that would perform way better. Does my link not work or something? If you need to register before it will let you view the thread, tell me, I will ask to rehost the pics and post them here when I do, but you can't look at those pictures and say that these things are amazing or anything like that."

Finally, the lumens of the "old" tungsten units were about 1/2 that of the halogen ones. From good old Wiki (always reliable :( ):

"There was an improvement in seeing distance with U.S. halogen high beams, which were permitted for the first time to produce 150,000 candela (cd) per vehicle, double the nonhalogen limit of 75,000 cd".

So, based on this, the tungsten units produce 500 - 750 lumens, right in the range (550 usable lumens) of the LED truck units. Help understand why they are DOT legal?

^+1 What he said.

Compared to the sealed beam bulbs you can get today they are way better. I never used the halogen housings and bulbs for the soul fact I don't want to have to do the upgrade wiring harness stuff. Course the led is more expensive but if something hapens I don't need to figure out if its the harness upgrade or the oem equipment. Just more of my reasoning.

^ Well all the data and reviews suggest otherwise, but to each his own I guess.

Whic led version are we talking about anyway? Trucklites old version or the new one? The hummer has the old I bought tje new. The old ones are 27250c. The new is 270270c.