RotorsRulePistonsDrool

I have been looking for some HID's for my car. I tried searching google, youtube, amazon reviews, and on the forum but seem to get mixed results.

I found that most people like the DDM tuning HID's because they are cheap and have an actual warranty. But have no say in the matter as this is the internet. I know it is all china crap most likely, but have nothing to go off of because they show up in many searches.

What brand or setup is recommended guys? Something less or around 100 bucks would be great.

Thanks

David Hayes

iTrader: (6)

Sorry, but for $100, it can't be done safely nor properly. You can't just install retrofitted HIDs into a reflector lens and have it work. You'll end up blinding oncoming traffic and having unusable light for yourself.

To do it right (not legal but proper light output) go to The Retrofit Source online: headlight upgrades for all applications and look at the SakeBomb retrofit page and copy what they did. Or better yet, they are running a GB right now.

Or even better (yes, I am biased) wait for the soon to be announced GB for the "David Hayes" sleepy eye retrofits. These use Hella HID modules which are DOT legal.

BryanDowns

iTrader: (2)

Got any more info on this? ie: pics

David Hayes

iTrader: (6)

^Superdan50 is just about ready to release the GB information based on my retrofit which can be found here:

https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generati...ersion-879394/

FYI, my lights in the pics were pretty far off of adjustment in the pics but you get the idea. I am not involved in the sale of the kit, but have helped Dan along the way by sending in my pieces so he could then engineer a better design based on my one-off stuff.

Dan enlisted Ken at Shine Auto to make the shrouds out of carbon fiber and he's going to soon send me a sample kit to install and test against my one-off. This should happen any day.

I would guess he's going to post up info on this shortly.

Akagis_white_comet

iTrader: (4)

Sorry David Hayes, but I gotta disagree with you about using a retrofit kit. While approaching it the proper way (such as SakeBomb Garage's kit) will certainly do the job in the correct, DOT-approved manner, do recall Icemark's comparison thread in the Second Gen section.

Pretty sure the pics are gone (check for yourself to be certain), but I clearly recall that he took pictures of stock 6054s, Sylvania Silverstar 6054s, a cheap ebay H4 housing with a H4 HID conversion kit and a GOOD H4 conversion (either Hella or Cibie, can't recall which) housing with H4 HID kit

The thread clearly showed that the difference was almost entirely in the housings. The ebay housings with the HID kit put quite a bit of the light in a directly in front and scattered the remainder everywhere. In contrast, the GOOD H4 housing with the same HID kit had even light output across the whole width, a crisp cutoff and visible kickup on the right-hand side.

In regard to DDM Tuning's kits, I've seen a demonstration of one in a Honda Insight (H11 bulbs) on youtube here: Look carefully at the beam pattern and you'll see pretty much the same thing as Icemark illustrated in the aforementioned thread. Granted, the Insight uses a projector housing, but that is the reason why the beam pattern is so clearly defined.

A good housing will make it clean and work well. A cheap one will make it crap. The housing is the key to success.

RENESISFD

iTrader: (13)

David, I dont think the "David Hayes" sleepy eye kit will work in a 1970 VW beattle (look at the OP's sig), I could be wrong though. That would be one versatile kit.


And I agree with Akagis_white_comet it is the housing that makes the difference. One would need to find a housing that is designed for HID bulbs, it does not need to be a projector housing to work.

David Hayes

iTrader: (6)

Well we will agree to disagree. For $100 and without a projector based setup it's a big "no" for me. It just can't be done and even with what you describe should not be attempted. There is a reason it's illegal. Correct beam pattern cannot be accomplished with a reflector setup, period. The physics of hid versus halogen light filaments are not the same thus making it impossible

There are hundreds of examples of hid retrofits in reflector housings via a quick search and none are safe. There's even a thread right now on this forum with a member that sourced "proper" housings and PIAA hids only to end up with a bad light pattern.

No chance to do this and end up with a safe and good light pattern.

And the video you show is of a projector based setup which kind of proves my point.

And knowing its going into a Bug albeit a cool one doesn't change the analysis. Hella makes a bunch of HID options that might work but they are not made for driving they are rally or fog lights. Note they say off road use only. There is a reason for that

turboIIrotary

iTrader: (9)

The only safe hid reflector is one that came on the car from factory. They use special d2r bulbs and the optics are completely different from a halogen reflector.

I have read icemark's thread and even though he had done a lot for the forum I have to go against his information. It is impossible to have a proper beam pattern in a halogen based reflector or even projector. A hid capsule has two hotspots while a halogen has one so the hid capsule can never be aligned with a halogen based reflector/projector. He also only did test of how much light output there was no one is arguing that hids are dimmer. Its the fact that hids in halogen lights cause unwanted glare and light in wrong areas.

Check in the fd section where someone bought e-codes and stuck a hid kit in it even though it does have a noticeable cutoff it has a ton of glare above the cutoff and too much light in the foreground.

David Hayes

iTrader: (6)

^ What he said.

David Hayes

iTrader: (6)

Now here is something to consider for the OP, a 7 inch round HID projector setup:

Web Store - Sick HIDs

And a pic of the setup:



Video:


What I question is the cutoff on the system and is it proper as the site doesn't show it in pics or videos. Might be worth looking into as it's pretty cool and I think his Bug runs 7 inch round units. He offers several different models.

turboIIrotary

iTrader: (9)

Those are mini h1 projectors.

David Hayes

iTrader: (6)

^ So good cutoff?

turboIIrotary

iTrader: (9)

Yep I have them in my miata the only thing i don't like about them is they use a h1 base. But that should be changed eventually.

RotorsRulePistonsDrool

Hmm I will look into those universals/proper housing for HID's etc. It was just an idea as the older bug technology is fine just not great. And I looked into retrofit and it seems like a lot of work for some lights that may or may not come out perfect. SO I take it there are projectors designed for HID's and projectors designed for Halogens correct?

RotorMotor

iTrader: (5)

Here's my prototype Miata setup using 7" rounds :


I've got a shelf full of 7" prototypes but they're quite long so you've got to have decent clearance behind the lights to clear it all. For the Miata I've got it down to a science (err maybe art?) with .5mm clearance front and rear using a proper philips d2s bulb.
-Heath

RotorMotor

iTrader: (5)

No there are some halogen projectors and some HID reflectors... it's a little confusing but for for the most part HID = projectors, and halogen = reflectors but it's not a cut and dry subject. Please feel free to ask any questions you've got and I'll try to answer them. I've done a two years of research on the subject awaiting publication and we sell these things like hot cakes

David Hayes

iTrader: (6)

That's what I'm talking about for the OP. You are right though a out the depth potentially being an issue. How deep are they? It's been forever since I owned my 69 Bug but if I recall correctly then there is not much room to play with.

Kaaarl12a

iTrader: (6)

Get some truck lite led lights. Cheeper than a ghetto hid retrofit. Dot approved made in the usa aluminum housing and poly carbonate lenses. Draws 3 amps on highbeam.

turboIIrotary

iTrader: (9)

If the hid retrofit is done on your own then it is not cheaper. Plus the beam patterns on those are horrid.

ZE Power MX6

iTrader: (157)

If done right retrofit is not ghetto, which will only run you around $300.

Kaaarl12a

iTrader: (6)

But you spend the extra time and money. Possibly mess up once and have to start over. Or put a little more money and get DOT approved headlights that draw less current and wont blind people from improper beam pattern. Also they are a direct fit no need to cut your headlight buckets for clearance.

turboIIrotary

iTrader: (9)

A retrofit has a proper beam pattern that is why it is done in the first place. They are not hard to make just very time consuming it is hard to mess up beyond the point of no return. Also 99% of the retrofits require no cutting of the car I am sure a beetle has a ton of room behind the headlight.

Kaaarl12a

iTrader: (6)

My apoligies I was thinking first gen with the flip ups.

David Hayes

iTrader: (6)

What is interesting is that they do make the 7 inch LED round headlights. That's cool, but what is not good is they are rated at 550 "effective" lumens. That is about 1/2 to 1/3 of the output of a halogen unit. Based on this, just can't see how they would be a good choice.

I'm all about using LEDs and have them all over the car and I love the Audi LED headlights, but I'd stay away from these until the brightness improves and the beam pattern is confirmed.

Scrub

iTrader: (25)

Yup it looks like they're half the output of standard halogen based on various tests I've seen ::insert sarcasm:: (one linked below).

LED headlight upgrade | Pro Pickup
Exposure settings not listed, but looks to me like the LED units are significantly better.

How can a DOT compliant headlight 1/2 the output of a standard unit!? DOT wouldn't approve something that isn't safe for use on the road would they!?


It should also be noted that usable light output is more than just a simple lumen number. Those LED units look like a great idea as an alternative to HID, especially where space is a concern. The LED units look no deeper than a standard halogen headlight assembly. But I can't say for sure because I've never seen one in person.

I have however, ridden in/drove Heaths Miata with our prototype bi-xenons and holy cow can you see at night time! We went blasting down Rt.9 from Santa Cruz and had no problems seeing far far ahead. Feel free to contact SBgarage or RotorMotor if you're interested in a set

-Dan