Concidering Alpine, only paying for a name?
 

Well, let me explain a little here. A friend of mine(who has a '78 280Z) is looking for a head-unit. He has a mid-80's shaft style POS Sony in there right now(MANUAL tuner) and he is finally looking at getting a regular DIN CD player. He talked to another friend of ours first(Matt).

Shaun(owner of the 280Z) is trying to decide between a Pioneer and Alpine, keep in mind these are the cheapest of the head units...even though the Alpine is $40 more($160 compared to $120). And Shaun is trying to justify buying the Pioneer. Matt says the Alpine is only a name and that the Pioneer may be superior. I believe the Alpine is the better head-unit. What do you guys think? Alpine or Pioneer?

BTW-I am trying to get an un-biased opinion here, by making us look like arguing high-schoolers. I will post after this to explain mine and his background.

Alright, now that I've got that out of the way...let me explain a little more here.

I'd like to think I've learned quite a bit about stereo equiptment over the last 6 years. I have done 6 installs....nothing major, 3 of those didn't include a sub, 2 were my own(which I'm more strict about) and 1 was Matt's. I have owned an Alpine headunit since '99 and have not ever had a problem with it. And everyone I know that has had an Alpine has had similar experiences. There are a few bad apples(like that HORRIBLE 3-disc in-dash changer Alpine made a few years back) but from my general understanding about car audio, Alpine is superior. Like I said, I'm no expert, but I know more than the average idiot.

Matt has WATCHED me install 2 of my installs. 1 in my car, the other he supervised his. He had a Pioneer headunit in his car(P8000 I believe, the first one with the Organic EL display) that sounded decent(my Alpine, I believe sounds much better). He did have many controls since I 'only' had the CDA-7838, which was a lower, older model. But he had his screen replaced 3 times, I never once had any problems like that. The buttons on the Pioneer are flimsy and there *seems* to be a major diffrence in the feel of the radio(construction wise).

Just a note- I don't like flashy head-units either. Because of Alpine's latest trend(flashy display) I not purchased a new one. I know, thats how they sell to all of these people that are just getting into audio, but my next head unit will be an Eclipse or Nakamichi(sp?). BTW- Matt also said that Eclipse is also in that 'paying for the name' group. And from what I've learned, Eclipse has a VERY VERY good track record in the audio business, and is regarded as one of the best.

Michael

ALPINE has the BEST CD carriage system in the industry. They always have. They also have the best tuner. I have dealt with Alpine since 1984. When everyone else was still using Sony's crappy carriage, Alpine had their own.
Why is it better: Sony originally manufactured all CD's. When competitors chimed in, the diameter and thickness of a CD started to vary (Stack 4 or 5 of your CD's together, you can tell they they all vary in size depending on who manufactured them. Sony's carriage was designed to specifically fit and play the CD's they manufactured.
ALPINE solved that problem before it every started.
Example: I sold a CD player to a guy who LOVED Sony. After he started complaining about it not playing some of his CD's, I told him about the problem. He would not listen. I finally challenged him. I had him bring me 5 CD's that he knew skipped or wouldn't play. I put those in a different sony in our board and they all skipped where he said they would. I then placed them all in 3 different Alpine's and NONE of them skipped and they all played just fine.

my 02.

Thank you, not only have you told me what I(and my friends) needed to know, but you have given me a VERY good peice of information that I will remember for quite some time. Thank you!

I still use an Alpine 7982; it was the second generation of the 3 disc in dash changer. Damned near unheard of at the time when I bought it, but still going strong at almost 10 years old.

Keep in mind that the events rxatra7 mentioned were during the 80s. I've had two Pioneer mid-level ($250) headunits over the past 5 years with no problems (except for when the car got broken into and the 1st one disappeared).

As well, I have a friend who has a 4 year old Alpine headunit which doesn't have the twin laser thing that allows for the playing of CDR or burnt CDs. My first Pioneer (older than his Alpine) had no problem playing burned CDs.

Personally, I think they are all very similar. The biggest difference between brands is probably the amp, and if you do everything via external amps, that's not a big factor.

Alpine head units are far superior in sound quality to Pioneer. They are not worth the difference in price though. I personally have had excellent results with JVC. I had a head unit/cd changer package now and still working since 95.

Also from being in the car audio biz for 18+ years (and remember personally putting in the first Alpine CD player in San Diego (the 7900- which was a Sony and piece of crap) all the way up to todays models, I can say Alpine makes the most reliable (with the exception of the old 7900) and one of the best sounding CD players at what ever price point you choose.

I personally would not consider any other brand CD player for my vehicles.

I was gonna put a alpine cva 1005 and a alpine dva 5205... will that be as good as quality as if i has a dvd hooked up to my tv inside? i figure it will lack a little but i dont know :?

Thanks for the info guys. Its good to see people around who actually know what they're talking about and not just 'stating their opinion.' I'm going to be getting a new headunit today, one of the new Alpine's...my audio processor doesn't work, and its the last one they have...so I'm returning it to the store and buying an upper model Alpine, which would have almost the power output of my amp I was going to buy(27wx4 rms, compared to the amp which was 30x4).

If anything, maybe this thread will give some insight into the stereo world for my friends....thanks again.

Michael

Well 12 years of Alpine and Pioneer experience here... In the basic units the features and such are just about equal. The Alpine is a little better, but in terms of reliablity and operation, also taking in account sound quality. They are both just about equal. Just what ever you do dont get a Sony, unless you like a empty hole in your dash while its away at service, sometime in its warranty period...

Like I said before, I've had an Alpine headunit since winter of '99, but now I've just bought a CDA-7893...WOW, this is one GREAT peice of equiptment!

Well, if your friend is only going for the cheapest head unit he can find, whether its the pioneer or the alpine, he's only going to get substandard sound, because neither of the two will use quality componants and you wont get true clean mosfit power out of either of them. Both decks mentioned actually have the similar panasonic componants in them. so unless hes going to buy a high end deck from alpine (which is better than a high end pioneer) id go with the pioneer, cuz there wont be much difference in quality between the two.

You'd be surprised just how good the quality is. I own a CVA 1005 and DVA 5200 and currently have them installed. The DVD playback was really more than I expected for that size screen. I've decided to sell the stuff though as of late, not because I didn't like the equipment, but rather that I think I need to kind of simplify things in my audio system. Then I can bank some money and live up to my screen name and get a 3rd Gen. :D

In response to the original question. Alpine makes some fantastic headunits. Some of their older decks are really BARGAINS for quality SQ decks as well.

Im doing the research now as well: my input

Higher end alpines and pioneers ad 1 usable feature that their lesser price brothers do not...imagining and time adjust. These are features that help tune the system for optimal sound. By fussing with the imaging you can actually hear the stereo moving around the cabin. The lower price deh's and the like have too many video games for my taste. Who need jumping dolphins on an lcd?? That being said...I still think the nakamichis have better sound quality for a no frills player. ok ok the nakamich skips a bit on some burned cds but I'd pit my 2 year old cd-40 against the $799 alpine anyday of the week for depth and sound quality provided you turn off all the timing and imagining stuff. In my opinion its like Brittany Spears...every hear her sing without all the electronic dubbing...man she sucks!!! Ad a few over dubs and she sounds pretty good and shes not bad to look at. Same is true for the bulk of car stereos. All and all though, I'd stay away from nakamichi...theres just no support for the product anymore. you can get an alpine anywhere

I'll chime in with one minor bit of anecdotal evidence. I've got an older Alpine cassette head unit and a 6-disc CD changer. I had this setup in my '87 T2 years ago, and when I got my FD in '95 I moved it over. I think in all that time I may have had a CD skip three times, and in all cases, huge bumps were involved. Keep in mind that much of this was in an FD...if there was ever a suspension born to f*** with a CD carriage, it was the FD.

The other thing is the cassette...not that anyone listens to cassettes anymore...but prior to the Alpine I had a Clarion, and I was never happy with the cassette transport on that thing. There was always this subtle warble to it that the Brandsmart technicians mysteriously couldn't hear (imagine that!). I have never had that issue with the Alpine.

jds

i just installed the alpine 7894 (mp3 capable/time correlation/hi-low crossover/ 60 watt mosfet amp peak) with jl audio vr 6.5 in doors and tr 5x7's in back and it rocks!

Got it for $350 installed with dedicated power ran from the battery...

Icemark is a guy with experience, and I know for a fact that mine is not even close to 18 years!! LOL

But, you can ask a question to a million of installers and you will get a million answers (if not 2 millions). I am an Eclipse (Fujitsu Ten) fan, even after working for Alpine reps in P.R.!! Don't get me wrong, Alpine is a top notch brand, but there are other which are even or better, IMHO!!

Now I don't really like the Low Budget Alpine head unit, but to be honest (and fair) I don't really like any low budget head unit. In my experience, a Pioneer and Kenwood head unit will give you the same amount of reliabillity as a low budget Alpine head unit.

My .02 cents

what do you guys think about clarion?

I also work in the car audio bussiness, but i'm no expert, we will always have more to learn right?

As far as entry level units, honestly, it doesnt really matter. They are all going to give you roughly similar features and benefits. Assuming you stick with a good brand (boycott jensen hehe).

If your talkin about higher end units, you can't really go wrong with Pioneer, Alpine, or Eclipse. Sony's higher end Mobile ES decks were pretty good a couple years ago, but the new Xlod line sucks ass in my opinion... excluding the MEH-1HD with the built in HD. Even thier LCD screens suck.

I personally am a fan of Alpine. Seems thier game plan is more Function over Form (though by no means ugly), and Pioneer's going the Form over Function route. A little bit of flashiness is cool, but never more important than good sound and good tunability. IMHO of course. Though, bieng in New Mexico, we sell alot of decks to people who go offroading, and from thier responses it seems Pioneer has better shock resistence. Also, the DEH940P has an optional microphone you can clip next to where your sitting and it will listen in and filter out road noise and such with white noise. Pretty cool. Eclipse decks are awesome, but I gotta admit I don't know a whole lot about them, except that everyone I know who has had one has loved it.

Best thing to do is read up a little bit about the fundamentals so you understand the basics of shit like time correction,EQ's, High freq and low freq crossovers, higher voltage preouts, etc. Then go to your local shop and play around and see which one will benefit you the best.

Hope I didn't ramble too much. Peace.

In my limited experience they are clearly inferior to Alpine heads of the same or slightly greater cost. I had mine in the Brandsmart service department several times due to subtle but quite clearly problematic issues with cassette sound quality (not that anyone cares about that anymore).

jds

Its funny that you think Alpines are moving towards the flashy display...have you seen the latest Sony, Pioneer or even Kenwood decks? Good God! The Alpines are downright Spartan in comparison. I can't stand most of those others, but I do like the style of the newer Alpines quite a bit.

jds


N1XRR wrote:

Just a note- I don't like flashy head-units either. Because of Alpine's latest trend(flashy display) I not purchased a new one

nx1rr

choosing between the two is simple even if you are not familiar with alpine and pioneer.


the advantages of the alpine are.

1 sub level control - the most important feature know to man - you like bass right!

2 cd changer controller, aux input, video system capable - not the 2002 model wait for 2003 model - in stores now.

3 rotory encoder knob - we are rotor heads aren't we - also 2003 model

4 never buy audio equipment sold at wal-mart......period...


when everyone talks about how long they have had their radio thats great but reliability comes from the big picture and i have sold all of the major brand names and nothing i mean nothing compares to alpines reliability. that doesn't someone out there hasn't had a problem with them.

last words of advice don't ever cheese on a 7
buy a better radio like the cda 7894. better hurry the dual color illumination is lost in the 2003 model.

^
Kraco heads kick ass!! Sound design subs are tiiiighttt!!!

When reliability comes into play: I've got a 12 year old eclipse headunit.. still sounds AMAZING, and still works fantastic. I realize that he's not looking for one, and if you're only spending $120, well, you'll get what you pay for.

i have a kenwood excelon 915...its absolutely perfect. 8v preamps, sub controls, everything.

And its juuuuust old enough that its not scary looking like the new ones. NEVER had a problem with it.

Im brand loyal to kenwood excelon products for the most part, but also think Alpine makes really good stuff.

Is there a better sub for the money compared to the Alpine type r's?

I have a pioneer head unint the old 5200. Had it for about 3yrs its a good unint I think never had a problem with it and I kinda like pioneer bc of othe mosfit chip. Alpine is a good head unit too.

I recommend kicker, clarion, and eclipse. I've had bad experiences with alpine and kenwood.

Alpines are good but nothing is compared with a pioneer headunit. I have one for 4 years now it's the 6100 and works great. Also nothing is compared with pioneer's graphics and OEL display:D

Well my experince is probably too old for today's gear but I will chime in anyway. I don't like Pioneer and never have, although their high-end projection TVs rock. Alpine is pretty impressive, I was very happy with my CD-changer they made.

Clarion I liked then disliked, mainly cause the one I have now is the pickiest deck I have ever seen. Little scratches on the CD and it won't play.

Again, my info is old and things might have changed in the past 5 or so years but head units were never great if you used their built in power. I always prefered using the audio outs to a quality amp and have it run the speakers. But that is not always an option or warranted.

But if I had to choose between Alpine and Pioneer I would pick Alpine.

I had alpine in my car for many years, untill I bought the Nakamichi CD-45z huge difference... sounds so much better than my old Alpine, the sound quality really surprised me and encouraged me to go all out and got some mcintosh amps and focal speakers to compliment it. Now I am thinking about getting another Nak a more modern model.

You should really consider upgrading to Nak it's not much more expensive than the Alpines

Nakamichi is one fo the few I would pick ahead of Alpine's "high end" decks. I've been thinking of adding Nak's in-dash 6 cd for a while now.

Naks are pretty good, but it is infair to compare a +4 years old high end deck vs a modern high end deck.

Still a Eclipse fan :)

That's the other I'd pick over an Alpine any day ;)

I've had good luck with both companies next-to-highest-end units. I prefer Pioneer's 15 band graphic EQ's to Alpine's 5 bandparametric EQ's. The Alpines just dont have enough center freq choices to make it effective for me. The Eclipses are better implemented. I'm about to buy a deck and I keep coming down to this as a reason to make the choice.

I feel that there are a lot of over-enthusiastic Alpine Fanboys that blindly and universally choose that brand over any other. They *do* make decent equipment, but it's not *always* leaps and bounds above any other.

Do NOT buy a Sony. I have installed Tein coilovers on my FD, and on the softest setting the damn thing would skip like crazy. Now it doesn't play cd's at all. It was top of the line when I bought it, and within 2 years it wasn't working.

The reason I purchased it was because I wanted a blackface/hideaway face. I don't want to deal with having to remove the face. Are there any good headunits out there with black or hideaway face that will not skip and sound good?


Petros

I've got a Nakamichi CD-40z that I bought a few years ago. I chose it primarily because it was one of the few options that had a subtle appearance. It is available with an amber display, but I bought it from uBid and they sent me a green one. :( It was only $140 and it was so nice that I decided to keep it anyway.

The controls are simple and it has everything I need. The display is clear and is easy to read even in direct sunlight. It looks stock, and doesn't have wacky crap getting in the way of listening to music. It has a real knob (easy to grab, feels solid -- much better than anything else I found in this price range) for adjusting the volume and other settings. It has enough power to drive my 6.5" front and 6x8" rear speakers to decent volumes without much distortion -- enough to rock out even at high speeds and over my loud exhaust. It seems to play my CD-Rs just fine.

I have heard of some trouble with Nakamichi in terms of skip resistance and failures, but my experience has been unexpectedly good. I have a stiffly sprung, heavily damped suspension (very bumpy ride on the street) and it very rarely skips. I drive hard and don't like to slow down for bumps.

I don't know what the status of Nakamichi's mobile sound division is, but I am very happy with my CD-40z.

-Max

Not sure why you think Alpine is priced high due to name. I had a choise of Pioneer or Alpine. With more features, the Alpine was about $100 less. It's the 60W/channel MP3 playing model. External metal box on cable for power boosting switching power supply, if you want to figure out which one. Or I can look up the model, though it's now two years old, and long since replaced with one that's "better".

Oh yeah, and be careful which one you buy because the car does not have a lot of extra space in there (depth or width). It was tight getting all those cables and that metal box to slide back in! I also bought the stock storage compartment to put in the other DIN space (lined the interior of it with leather so things would not rattle - like I would hear that in this car ;)

wow this thread is over a year old.

i hope the guy has a cd player by now

I have had Pioneer and Panasonic headunits that served their purpose. The Panasonic was a tape player and it did fine. Pioneer was a cd player and it worked until it got stolen. I then was told about Alpine and how nice their head units are. I bought the CDA-7873 a couple years ago and I love it. The layout of the buttons is good, the volume dial is easily reached and easily adjustable, and the head unit makes my music sound great. I have been in friend's cars that have aftermarket systems and they don't sound as good. I even convinced my friend to buy an alpine head until and he loves it. (mine still sounds better cuz he got the cheaper one) Only one time did I have a problem with my head unit and that was over a year ago. I overheated it and it needed to shut down for a few minutes. A few minutes later I turned it back on, took it easy the rest of the day and have never had a problem since. I am a loyal Alpine customer and will not settle for anything less. Their speakers on the other hand, there are better brands. Such as MB Quart.

I prefer Alpine...

Funny thing. My friend actually bought my old CDA-7838. Didn't even put it in his car and sold it to someone else. I was a little upset, because I gave him a deal on the headunit because he needed one...but that was his decision.

Anyway, I then bought a CDA-7893 and used it, coupled with XM, for almost a year. I then sold that headunit to my mom and bought a CDA-9815. The 9815 is just AMAZING and having the dual-line display for XM is very good.

To the person who said they like the Pioneers x amount of EQ settings. If someone is going to properly setup a stereo they are not going to use internal equalization.

Alpine kicks major ass, no questions asked. I have an Alpine Head unit, alpine class d sub amp and type r 10s in the trunk. I have never heard a better system that didn't cost thousands of dollars. Overall I've got about a grand in mine and am completely satisfied. Tell our friend to get an alpine and not screw himself over with a pioneer.

Well, at least, not Alpine's internal EQ anyway...:rolleyes: (except for the F#1 Status)

start savin now and you might have the money for that in 2075

i just bought an alpine , and is pretty good, but is you want the best sound quality go for a nakamichi ...is the best in SOUND ...

Pioneer sucks my cock. I would only get alpine or eclipes. But i would take anything if it where free! I have had friends with pioneer and they suck nomatter what model you get. Eclipes is where it is at!