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Hey everyone, I'm looking for some assistance in troubleshooting a no start situation with my project.
Relevant information:
1974 REPU
13B-REW with REPU front cover; stock ports, stock fuel rails with 1300cc bored out secondaries. Walbro GS392 fuel pump.
Verified compression with Rotary specific compression tester; 90-93psi on all faces.
Haltech PS1000 with Haltech terminated loom harness and fuse/relay block. Using the built-in MAP sensor on the PS1K.
LS1 Direct-Fire ignition system. New NGK 9's all around.
FFE Hall Sensor trigger kit.
What's happening:
Engine will crank over but doesn't start. Does not sound like it wants to start or will nearly start- just cranks. During cranking AEM WB02 does not read anything (max lean).
What I've tried/verified:
I am essentially running the Haltech base map for the FD with the trigger and ignition settings changed for my setup.
I have 12v to the coils and injectors.
Got it to run off some starter fluid for about 5-7 seconds.
Fueling; I made big additions to the fuel base map and can see smoke/excess fuel pushed out of the exhaust and the AEM WB02 will read down to 14:1-16:1 during cranking with this "excessive" amount of fuel added to the fuel base map. Fuel injectors appear to be working.
Injector duty is around 2.5-3% while cranking. Injector pulse around 5.5-6.6 off base map setting. I've gone as little as 1.5ms to as much as 22ms of injector pulse width when I got the 14:1-16:1 AFR reading while cranking.
Timing: I have verified all 4 coils are firing with a timing light and that I have the firing order/coil assignment correct. I've tried everything between 5-20* of ignition timing advance while cranking with no difference.
Trigger/base timing: Here is where I'm not 100%. As said I am running the FFE Hall Trigger kit. I have the REPU eshaft hub on the 13B-REW engine with FD crank pulley flipped backwards. Because of this setup there is no timing mark and the pulley/trigger wheel will align in all 4 positions. I used the stock REPU pulley as reference (that has timing marks) to align what I assumed was the TDC indicator on the FFE trigger wheel when installing.
This is what the trigger wheel looks like with the front rotor at TDC:
I manually aligned the rear rotor apex seal to point in-between the trailing and leading plug and then marked the pulley as TDC to the indicator with the stock REPU front cover. With the engine cranking and timing locked to 0*, I moved the trigger offset value in the Haltech until I got the timing mark lined up. I ended up at a trigger offset of 143* which seems off to me. Most people with this kit use a value of 90* but I understand my setup is a little different. I'm not 100% if I followed the zero timing procedure correctly or not.
Since making this adjustment to the trigger offset I can not get it to run of start fluid as before. Still doesn't sound like it even wants to fire while cranking. I put the trigger offset back to 90* and it still won't fire off starter fluid as before. Is it feasible it could run off start fluid with the trigger offset off by 53*?
What else can I test and troubleshoot? Did I mess up the base timing reference and trigger wheel offset?
Went to try and re-verify timing and my timing light was showing no output/not flashing on any coil. I was puzzled as it this was just working and nothing had changed. Check fuses all good. Verified power at every coil on the harness. Suspecting my cheap timing light, I pulled the leading plugs to have them arc to the fender. The L2 plug had a very strong arc but the L1 plug was rather weak. Switched plugs and the weak arc followed the plug- bad plug. I put it in the T1 position and verified a strong plug is now in the L1 and L2 position.
I sprayed some starter fluid in the TB elbow and it fired up for about 4 seconds. I was then able to crank it while spraying start fluid in the TB and it would fire, and I could keep it running (roughly) while continuously spraying start fluid in the TB.
I then figured it must need more fuel so I added a large amount (from about 6ms of injector pw to 25ms) to the fuel base map. I also changed the trigger offset back to 95* as I don't trust my timing light. It sputtered and ran for the first time without the aid of start fluid, but died after about 15-20 seconds, but actually ran. I added a little more fuel to more areas of the map it would trace to once running and it started and ran again for another 20 seconds.
I added even more fuel (probably 32-35ms now) and it wouldn't start and was smoking quite a bit of fuel vapor and the AFR was showing about 11:1 during cranking. I may have flooded it and pulled fuel back out and couldn't get it to light again, with or without starting fluid. It seems very inconsistent. And I don't trust my timing light or how the trigger offset is.
I have checked injector and coil wiring from plug to ECU plug and have triple checked they are in the correct spot.
I did go through checking TDC one more time I am pretty sure I had m TDC mark off. I realigned the trigger wheel and referenced TDC marks on the stock REPU pulley so I feel confident I have that accurate now.
Minor update; found the previous owner had modified the fuel injector harness and it was incorrect. I fixed and it now the wideband reads at a much more reasonable fuel injection pulse width. But still no start.
I have verified TDC at least 5 times and I am positive I have it right.
I did some remote tuning with a friend and he noticed the missed trigger/tooth count was quite high (around 15-17 during cranking). Also, in the trigger setup page, the Home Window is at 16 and Tooth count is 1. These boxes are greyed out and I can't change them and they remain the same regardless of the trigger wheel I select. The setup page on the FFE website for the PS1K ECU shows a Home Window of 24 and Tooth Count of 24. I am wondering if this has something to do with my issues and how I can edit these settings?
I have an FC CAS coming tomorrow to try and eliminate issues.
I have attached the two ECU maps, one for the FFE hall trigger and another for an FC CAS. The maps might be a little basic since I've been disabling a lot of corrections to eliminate variables.
I got an FC CAS and installed it per the FSM and wired it up as per the Haltech instructions. I get RPM signal and everything looks right but still no start.
I loaded a friends known good calibration from his car that uses a PS1K and an FC CAS and still no fire.
I suspected faulty primary injectors; I pulled them out and cranked the engine while watching them and both primaries appeared to spray excellent, no leaks and both were functional.
So at this point I have tried;
FFE Hall sensor
FC CAS
I have spark on all 4 coils, all coils are wired to the correct plug from spark plug to ECU pin
I have the fuel injectors wired correctly from injector clip to ECU pin ad I have verified primary injectors are functional and working
It will sputter and run briefly while on starter fluid
Fresh fuel in the tank with a clean filter, brand new pump, engine has good compression.
Only thing I haven't tested (because I don't have a gauge or sensor) is fuel pressure. I plan on getting a sensor and wiring that into the Haltech this week. I'm running stock FD rails with the stock pressure regulator on the secondary rail. I have fuel flowing to the rails and fuel returning to the tank.
Thanks for everyone who weighted in on this, I finally got it started today.
As is the case with probably most of these, it was a mechanical problem. I pressure tested my intake system and found 3 large vac leaks. Fixed them and it started up almost instantly and idled on its own. Everything looks great. Now for some fine tuning, a custom 1 piece driveshaft and this BW S366 REPU will be ripping up the road soon!
07-15-17, 07:26 PM
