Haltech 4 port boost controller tip
04-29-17, 11:34 PM
#1
4 port boost controller tip
so I've been having some massive control issues with 4 port and I think I was able to solve all issues. I just wanted to share my mistakes so others can avoid them.
1. use a light spring. for 3 port, use spring that's about half of your goal PSI. for 4 port, use spring that's about 1/3 of your goal PSI or even 1/4. I started with 10psi spring to tune to 12-14psi and it was almost impossible to get that crap to hold steady with closed loop boost control. i went to 5 psi spring and it's a world of difference with higher duty cycle which brings me to my second point.
2. you want your duty cycle of your boost controller to be at the linear range. if you're using standard MAC 4 port valve, at 25 hz frequency, you want your solenoid duty to be around 20-50% anything lower will give you almost no control. if you go lower frequency, you can use wider range of duty cycle but your control resolution will suffer. so this is the part you will have to play with those 2 variables to fit your application with the most important component being the wastegate spring weight IMHO.
3. always fix the duty cycle cell that's right before when it's seeing under or over boost. it takes time to build boost, so if you're off by 3 psi at 5000rpm, don't fix duty cycle at 5000rpm, fix at 4000 and 4500rpm.
I dialed mine in finallly. my main culprit was using too stiff of spring for my target psi which meant low solenoid duty cycle which was out of the solenoid's linear range making it almost impossible to control faithfully. I am going to put in a 7psi spring once it gets here just so I can have option to go beyond 20psi later with AI. I like the 4 port because you can run super light springs for the 1st gear pulls and have option to go high boost with the same light spring. down side is that it's very sensitive to the changes. so when I make adjustments, I adjust it by ~0.5 out of 100 duty cycle. that corresponds to about 1-2psi in that narrow window of useable duty cycle.
1. use a light spring. for 3 port, use spring that's about half of your goal PSI. for 4 port, use spring that's about 1/3 of your goal PSI or even 1/4. I started with 10psi spring to tune to 12-14psi and it was almost impossible to get that crap to hold steady with closed loop boost control. i went to 5 psi spring and it's a world of difference with higher duty cycle which brings me to my second point.
2. you want your duty cycle of your boost controller to be at the linear range. if you're using standard MAC 4 port valve, at 25 hz frequency, you want your solenoid duty to be around 20-50% anything lower will give you almost no control. if you go lower frequency, you can use wider range of duty cycle but your control resolution will suffer. so this is the part you will have to play with those 2 variables to fit your application with the most important component being the wastegate spring weight IMHO.
3. always fix the duty cycle cell that's right before when it's seeing under or over boost. it takes time to build boost, so if you're off by 3 psi at 5000rpm, don't fix duty cycle at 5000rpm, fix at 4000 and 4500rpm.
I dialed mine in finallly. my main culprit was using too stiff of spring for my target psi which meant low solenoid duty cycle which was out of the solenoid's linear range making it almost impossible to control faithfully. I am going to put in a 7psi spring once it gets here just so I can have option to go beyond 20psi later with AI. I like the 4 port because you can run super light springs for the 1st gear pulls and have option to go high boost with the same light spring. down side is that it's very sensitive to the changes. so when I make adjustments, I adjust it by ~0.5 out of 100 duty cycle. that corresponds to about 1-2psi in that narrow window of useable duty cycle.
Last edited by stickmantijuana; 04-29-17 at 11:38 PM.
The following users liked this post:
RGHTBrainDesign (01-26-18)
05-08-17, 08:05 AM
#2
so I've been having some massive control issues with 4 port and I think I was able to solve all issues. I just wanted to share my mistakes so others can avoid them.
1. use a light spring. for 3 port, use spring that's about half of your goal PSI. for 4 port, use spring that's about 1/3 of your goal PSI or even 1/4. I started with 10psi spring to tune to 12-14psi and it was almost impossible to get that crap to hold steady with closed loop boost control. i went to 5 psi spring and it's a world of difference with higher duty cycle which brings me to my second point.
2. you want your duty cycle of your boost controller to be at the linear range. if you're using standard MAC 4 port valve, at 25 hz frequency, you want your solenoid duty to be around 20-50% anything lower will give you almost no control. if you go lower frequency, you can use wider range of duty cycle but your control resolution will suffer. so this is the part you will have to play with those 2 variables to fit your application with the most important component being the wastegate spring weight IMHO.
3. always fix the duty cycle cell that's right before when it's seeing under or over boost. it takes time to build boost, so if you're off by 3 psi at 5000rpm, don't fix duty cycle at 5000rpm, fix at 4000 and 4500rpm.
I dialed mine in finallly. my main culprit was using too stiff of spring for my target psi which meant low solenoid duty cycle which was out of the solenoid's linear range making it almost impossible to control faithfully. I am going to put in a 7psi spring once it gets here just so I can have option to go beyond 20psi later with AI. I like the 4 port because you can run super light springs for the 1st gear pulls and have option to go high boost with the same light spring. down side is that it's very sensitive to the changes. so when I make adjustments, I adjust it by ~0.5 out of 100 duty cycle. that corresponds to about 1-2psi in that narrow window of useable duty cycle.
1. use a light spring. for 3 port, use spring that's about half of your goal PSI. for 4 port, use spring that's about 1/3 of your goal PSI or even 1/4. I started with 10psi spring to tune to 12-14psi and it was almost impossible to get that crap to hold steady with closed loop boost control. i went to 5 psi spring and it's a world of difference with higher duty cycle which brings me to my second point.
2. you want your duty cycle of your boost controller to be at the linear range. if you're using standard MAC 4 port valve, at 25 hz frequency, you want your solenoid duty to be around 20-50% anything lower will give you almost no control. if you go lower frequency, you can use wider range of duty cycle but your control resolution will suffer. so this is the part you will have to play with those 2 variables to fit your application with the most important component being the wastegate spring weight IMHO.
3. always fix the duty cycle cell that's right before when it's seeing under or over boost. it takes time to build boost, so if you're off by 3 psi at 5000rpm, don't fix duty cycle at 5000rpm, fix at 4000 and 4500rpm.
I dialed mine in finallly. my main culprit was using too stiff of spring for my target psi which meant low solenoid duty cycle which was out of the solenoid's linear range making it almost impossible to control faithfully. I am going to put in a 7psi spring once it gets here just so I can have option to go beyond 20psi later with AI. I like the 4 port because you can run super light springs for the 1st gear pulls and have option to go high boost with the same light spring. down side is that it's very sensitive to the changes. so when I make adjustments, I adjust it by ~0.5 out of 100 duty cycle. that corresponds to about 1-2psi in that narrow window of useable duty cycle.
It seems that different people have different methods of mapping the duty cycles for their boost map. What works for me is:
1 - Run the open boost map at 0% (all cells set to 0)
2 - Datalog manifold pressure (take notes of max psi, and boost curve)
3 - Increment the open boost map by 10% (all cells set to 10)
4 - Datalog manifold pressure (take notes of max psi, and boost curve)
Continue this process until you reach your desired max boost, and create a document with dutcy cycles and their correspondent boost (this will be helpful for mapping closed boost control)
5 - Tweak the open boost map as needed. For example, set any cell from 0 vac/boost and below to 100% duty cycle, this will keep the wastegate shut when driving under vac or at zero vac.
6 - Some go further than step #5, and linearize the dutyc cycles between the max vac cell and the max "TARGET" psi cell.
Not trying to tell say that your post is wrong, just posting my experience on my FC with a PS1000. For example, I run my 4 port mac at 20Hz, a 3 psi wastegate spring on each tial 38mm, and have multiple open loop maps, ranging from 0% DC all the way to 32%. On my setup, 32% DC equals 16.x psi. All maps exhibit a similar linear boost graph, only difference is how much the boost shoots up.
Last edited by KNONFS; 05-08-17 at 08:11 AM.
05-08-17, 11:33 AM
#3
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
4 port 5.4 watt
10 Hz
9-87 DC % Range
20 Hz
16-70 DC % Range
30 Hz
22-62 DC % Range
40 Hz
25-40 DC % Range
Considering I still need to purchase my 4 Port MAC (since the old idea of going 3 Port isn't up to par for my new setup), I'll be choosing the HI-FREQ 4 Port and running at 20 Hz.
4 port C7-HI-FREQ
10 Hz
6-90 DC % Range
20 Hz
10-80 DC % Range
30 Hz
14-70 DC % Range
10 Hz
9-87 DC % Range
20 Hz
16-70 DC % Range
30 Hz
22-62 DC % Range
40 Hz
25-40 DC % Range
Considering I still need to purchase my 4 Port MAC (since the old idea of going 3 Port isn't up to par for my new setup), I'll be choosing the HI-FREQ 4 Port and running at 20 Hz.
4 port C7-HI-FREQ
10 Hz
6-90 DC % Range
20 Hz
10-80 DC % Range
30 Hz
14-70 DC % Range
The following users liked this post:
dhahlen (11-04-18)
05-22-17, 09:23 PM
#5
4 port 5.4 watt
10 Hz
9-87 DC % Range
20 Hz
16-70 DC % Range
30 Hz
22-62 DC % Range
40 Hz
25-40 DC % Range
Considering I still need to purchase my 4 Port MAC (since the old idea of going 3 Port isn't up to par for my new setup), I'll be choosing the HI-FREQ 4 Port and running at 20 Hz.
4 port C7-HI-FREQ
10 Hz
6-90 DC % Range
20 Hz
10-80 DC % Range
30 Hz
14-70 DC % Range
10 Hz
9-87 DC % Range
20 Hz
16-70 DC % Range
30 Hz
22-62 DC % Range
40 Hz
25-40 DC % Range
Considering I still need to purchase my 4 Port MAC (since the old idea of going 3 Port isn't up to par for my new setup), I'll be choosing the HI-FREQ 4 Port and running at 20 Hz.
4 port C7-HI-FREQ
10 Hz
6-90 DC % Range
20 Hz
10-80 DC % Range
30 Hz
14-70 DC % Range
What is the C7-HI-FREQ valve part number? I couldn't find any reference to that on the mac site, only the standard one:
P/N: 46A-AA1-JDBA -1BA
Series 46 4 Port Mac Valve
1/8" NPT Ports
Single Operator Without Flow Controls
12 VDC (5.4W) With 18" flying Leads
Non-locking recessed manual operator
It looks to me like the 4 port C7-HI-FREQ 20 Hz 10-80 DC % Range valve is going to the most versatile across a large range.
Skeese
05-23-17, 02:42 PM
#6
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
What is the C7-HI-FREQ valve part number? I couldn't find any reference to that on the mac site, only the standard one:
P/N: 46A-AA1-JDBA -1BA
Series 46 4 Port Mac Valve
1/8" NPT Ports
Single Operator Without Flow Controls
12 VDC (5.4W) With 18" flying Leads
Non-locking recessed manual operator
It looks to me like the 4 port C7-HI-FREQ 20 Hz 10-80 DC % Range valve is going to the most versatile across a large range.
Skeese
P/N: 46A-AA1-JDBA -1BA
Series 46 4 Port Mac Valve
1/8" NPT Ports
Single Operator Without Flow Controls
12 VDC (5.4W) With 18" flying Leads
Non-locking recessed manual operator
It looks to me like the 4 port C7-HI-FREQ 20 Hz 10-80 DC % Range valve is going to the most versatile across a large range.
Skeese