Haltech Transient
 

Hey guys, I have a 1988 NA tuned on an Elite 1500 with IGN1A coils. I had a stock S4 TPS when it got tuned and since then I have installed a Ford full range TPS. I got it calibrated fine and it has a smooth sweep. But now my transient throttle settings are obviously way off. my tuner is pretty hard to get ahold of so I decided to mess with it myself. I recently took the HPA practical tuning course and watched everything on the subject, but still cant get the transient maps figured out. On top of that, with my new understanding of tuning (still a long way to go) my tune seems pretty lazy. I was wondering if someone could help me out and look at my tune and explain how to adjust transient maps correctly on a rotary. I'm trying my best to learn so right now I'm more interested in the process than just having a running car. Attached are the original tune, how I adjusted it, and a datalog. The data log starts close to the original (forgot to start recording) and ends where its at right now. Thank you in advance :)

Original Tune

My Adjustments

Datalog

Edit: I should mention the original tune was an etune without a dyno. I just wanted it good enough to get me to work and back until I install my turbo.

Very odd, if the TPS was calibrated correctly then it shouldn't have been affected by the change in the sensor as all of the transients operate based on the rate of change of the tps signal. Why did you change sensors to begin with?

Skeese

Thanks for the reply. I changed to the new sensor on the advice from my tuner, and i was getting crazy rich AFRs at cruising/low throttle conditions, which I figured was because the ECU was adding fuel for 80-100% throttle when it was actually only like 30% throttle. He also tuned it referencing the TPS instead of the MAP. I think I just need to retune it from the ground up

So it was tuned in alpha N with a bad TPS?

Yes, he tuned it alpha N with the s4 tps. I told him before we started that it was a stock tps, and towards the end it was stuttering real bad on the street. I told him again that it was stock tps and he made some adjustments and told me to go get a full range tps. It was pretty smooth on the street with the stock tps, but it was running crazy rich and I was getting about 10MPG optimistically. I think I'm just going to load a base speed density tune on it and adjust it well enough to get me to work and back for a little while

So thats what I ended up doing. I loaded up parts of a basemap that I believe Skeese made for someone else a while back (thank you!). Even without any adjustments it runs SO much better. I think my transient tables were wack because they were refrencing a horrible fuel table. But now that I have a starting point that isnt in alpha-n I think I can smooth it out just fine

Sorry, I saw your post on HPA and was going to start suggesting converting your entire load strategy away from Alpha-N however I didn't know if you were interested in diving down that rabbit hole. Keep us posted here and there!

^^ To me this sounds like a classic case of tuner-doesn't-know-what-TF-they're-doing, which is sadly way too common these days. Any good tuner should be able to tune a TPS or MAP based tune all the same, but TPS load can be a bit trickier if you don't know what you're doing with a map based tuned to begin with. Even in an NA application, if the car doesn't have a HUGE port (semi peripheral at least) or ITBs there really isn't a need for a TPS Load AlphaN style tune.

If you want me to take a look at the setup of that file as relates to your car or if you need help sorting out the data feel free to shoot me a PM.

Skeese

I just looked through the initial tune file and there's definitely some funky stuff in there that doesn't make sense to me and a number of things that don't line up that would likely cause the car to run like balls. Based on the log, it appears the car wants to idle at ~1350 rpms even when fully warm? This seems excessively high for anything short of some form of bridge port and I'm assuming that based on the fact that the fuel system is setup for stock injectors that this is a stock port engine?

Also, in terms of the general setup for a TPS load based tune, there is a zero demand table which is flagged to be active when TPS measures 0.5% or below that has the car idling at 25 degrees leading timing from 1200-1400 rpms. First and foremost, you really shouldn't need this much leading timing at IDLE regardless of engine port. While each engine does like something a little different, I only need to run 18 degrees leading at idle on my semi port and it idles (consistent chop aside) smoothly at ~1650 rpms.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...8adcf05304.jpg

Secondly, this doesn't make sense in this application as the base ignition table is setup with ignition load being TPS...sooooo the 0% column IS zero demand and the 1000-1250 cells (where I'm assuming the car probably should be idling) have only 5 degrees leading timing. I'm just not sure what the intent here is with this setup.

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...1f099baf0d.jpg
When tuning a NA car in TPS load, I personally opt to keep the ignition table a function of MAP and then utilize the zero demand table to stabilize the idle if an only if the MAP signal isn't stable enough due to a large port/low vacuum condition.

There are a number of other things I don't get about it, but long story short I'd for certain recommend scrapping that file (and tuner) and starting fresh. I hope you didn't pay too much for it as it definitely seems like somebody's first hack pass at a TPS load tune. Let me know if you need help with sorting out the new one.

If you opt to tune it yourself, check out my thread on using MLV to tune the base fuel table.

GUIDE: Skeese's Fuel Map Target AFR Tuning W/ Megalogviwer

Skeese

^ I'm with stupid

Thank you so much for all your input. Unfortunately the tune was from a very reputable tuner and it was quite expensive... but like you said, its horrible. Ive scrapped it and made a fairly decent base map so far. Im excited to work on it more but my starter just decided to completely die. Ill probably pick your brains a bit soon. Thanks again!

Edit: I figured I'd adress the idle. Its stock port, but the 5th and 6 ports are wired open (actuators are siezed and I didnt want to deal with them since ill be putting turbo manifolds on soon). After I wired them open it didnt want idle under about 1,200rpm even before the tune