Haltech E6k tuned, start up driving has hesitation?
 

Ok i got my car street tuned by steve kan

i know i cant have everything my way.

but shouldn't i be able to drive my car "normally" right when i turn on the ignition and go?

only reason i could see my car bucking when it not warmed up is because im running 3mm seals?

did i just answer my own question?

i dont know, you tell me

thanks

Very odd...
Mr. Kan should've taken care of this, unless it was dyno tuned only?
I think he does street tuning...

Can you describe the hesitation better?
Only cold?
Only hot?
Certain RPM?
Certain load?

Did you change anything since the tune?


-Ted

it was street tuned
when i frst drive the car from first getting into the car no warm up
im going to make a video real quick to show you

here is the video of what i was talking about

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAnH1efSVQc

and

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-AkK5W2t0E

please let me know what you think..

after about a minute of idleing after making the video, i could somewhat drive normally, but with a little bogging...

only thing i changed was adding a intake filter.

when we were street tuning we had to run open TID because i did not have a air filter that would connect to the TID because of the stock MAS.

but now im running intake with filter

If I remembered correctly, You didn't have an idle control to bring your idle up for cold start issue. The only thing you could do is to either bring your idle rpm up manually and have it set to around 1000rpm or put the idle control back in and have it configure to keep your idle running. The engine will not hold idle well at cold start up w/o an idle control and you really shouldn't be driving the car at all for at least 2 mins to let everything warm up anyways.

I would suggest you get a BAC valve, if you have AC or Powersteering or both. You should also work with your compensation maps to make sure you have enough fuel or not too much when the engine is either warm or cold.

Also, what kind of porting if any does this have? How is your vaccuum at idle? 7psi (15in/Hg) or less?

Hmmmm...videos are unusual...
That first video...I'm assuming you're cranking on a dead-cold engine?
I dunno if your stock water temp gauge is working, but it shows it's pretty cold.
The starting / primer sounds to be a little off - it takes a little bit too long for my tastes to get the engine cranking and running.
Once the engine is idling, it's pretty stable - odd.

After the engine dies, you can crank it pretty quicking to get it fired up.
Was the engine a bit more warmed up?

I dunno if you can live with a little higher idle speed, but I like to run them about 1,000RPM.

You might want to check the ignition timing maps.
The engine likes to have a little bit more ignition timing advance, especially at idle, and this keeps the idle more stable.

Also, I think you're sub idle RPM fuel maps are not tuned to the idle point?
Maybe pluto can confirm that?
If the engine happens to dip under the idle RPM, it'll hit the really low RPM map points.
If those points are not adjusted correctly, it'll tend to kill the engine. :(
What I like to do is look at the what point in the fuel map that the engine likes to idle at.
Now, adjust each adjacent bar at be even with the idle point.
Now, adjust one RPM range down, and adjust that point to be about the same as the idle point.
At this one RPM range down, also adjust the left and right bars to be about the same.


-Ted

the only thing i use to adjust the idle is the BAC valve. My BAC is tightened all the way to the right (clockwise), it idle a little above 1000 rpm

i guess my idle control was removed when i got my motor rebuilt...?

what does the idle control look like?

I do have a BAC valve
it has a street port,

my vaccuum i believe is a little above 7psi

my problem is i want to be able to drive with cold start up without the engine cutting off

yes first video i am cranking on a dead cold engine

yes water temp is working, i got it rewired

yea it does take a bit to crank at cold start up, but once warmed up and try to start it up again, its no problem
maybe it's hard to start cause im running 3mm seals?

no once i cranked it again,
it was just after the cold start up, no warm up

funny thing the lowest i can get it down to idle without using AC is about 1100 rpm

the car drives and runs great, i just want to be able to drive it normally with a cold start up....

say i have some visitors, and i had to go out and move the car out of my driveway so they can leave, i want to be able to repark my car without the engine cutting off on me...

i really dont want to mess with the fuel map that steve made for me...
maybe its just a thing i will have to deal with?

No, the cranking / primer maps need to be adjusted.
It sounds like it needs a tad more fuel when it's colder...

The base fuel maps look okay.
The car seems to take off from a stop okay.
If you say that the car drives fine when everything is hot, then the base fuel maps don't need to be messed with.
You need to just adjust the primer and coolant maps just to get the car to run a little better when cold...that's it.
These two take a while to adjust, and I wouldn't be surprised of pluto didn't have the time to get them dialed in good - I know his tuning trips don't last for more than a week usually.
It takes me several days to get those two down driveable, and it takes several cycles of letting the engine get all the way cold and then letting it warm up.

I think you should learn how to adjust those maps on the Haltech to save you some headache?


-Ted

maybe your right?

but i think i should consult with Steve first,
I know its my car and my haltech, i just dont want to kick my self in the ass if i mess it up.

he says my idle control is removed, but im cluesless on that?

That's the odd thing...
It looks like the idle contol (i.e. BAC valve) isn't working properly... :(


-Ted

it is working when i adjust it counterclockwise the rpm goes up

I honestly don't remember if you have your BAC or not since it has been so long and I have a very bad short term memory. If the BAC is working, you should be able to hear a buzzing noise coming from your BAC (35-40ms usually). if the BAC doesn't Buzz, it means that the BAC isn't working and/or haltech not configure for it (which I'm not sure if it was or not since I didn't install the haltech). Since I only redid your fuel/ign map, whatever it was set prior should work as is.

You should consult with the person who install your haltech to see what PWM the BAC was set to.

Steve

yea i started up my car today, and i did not really hear a buzzing noise?

and also of course it take a little while to start my car on cold start up...

so do i either get a another BAC or?

With out a BAC/ISC/AWS you can get your car to idle on start ups and drive fine with tunning alone.

It's all in the maps and corrections.

Coolant correction maps are your friend......

Post start maps are very important.........

Fuel priming maps are great..........

All those take time and your average "street" tune will honestly not go that deep into tunning.

You can't always copy paste those maps and get it to run great based off mods etc.

This is something that you only get when your car is cold. I didn't take a look at the video but willing to bet it can be all solved by your correction maps. I've worked on cars with out isc/bac/isc etc and never had a problem with cold starts that couldn't be solved with the tools haltech provides.

You have the tools to make it happen just spend time and correct it.

Your AFR's on start up are going to be very rich compared to normal conditions. 11's is quite common while still warming up.

- As for the BAC make sure your pwr output is enables and make sure the settings under Idle are correct (start up rpm etc...)

Honestly no one will put the effort/care into your car as you would and "details" get over looked sometimes.

I got the webpage to load second time.

I have to agree with Ted your priming maps looks like it needs adjusting (long crank time)

Your post start maps seems good.

I think the real key is your Coolant correction maps.

Makes a ton of difference and had same thing with my FD. Give your coolant correction a good page up and see what that does on the main curve of the map.

For me it was difference between impossible to drive on start ups and a stock car on start up.

Alot of this type of tunning is "feeling" the car. Sounds corny but an afr gauge wont' help you very much here.

- as for the maps they should all be uniformed through out the whole rpm range.

If they are not same below your idle do a

Ctrl-A (select entire rpm range)
Ctrl-C (copy rpm range)
then n or p for next or previous rpm range
Ctrl-V (paste the map)

then after your done use n and p to cycle up and down the rpm to make sure they are all the same.

Sesshoumarui think you for your input and everyone else that has contributed to this thread.

so i need to work on:

priming map
and
coolant correction maps

i've seen steve and some other people mess with the haltech on the laptop

but im not that experienced, just an amateur who knows some basics about cars
since he only did my fuel and ignition maps
and not my priming or coolant maps,

i'll have to reinstall windows 2000 on my laptop again before i start messing with this.

cold driving
 

no rx7 drives normal when its cold. you should wait for the vacum to build up. its normal.

All of this is tunable without the use of a BAC valve.

Things to consider are also your Throttle Pump settings and coolant factor.

Another thing to do is check compression. Often overlooked, and very important to know exactly where your engine stands, so you know you won't be chasing your tail.

it needs more cold primer

getting it to idle dead cold, and be able to use the ps and ac like that isnt going to be easy, without the bac valve, mazda has a seperate valve to raise the idle when you turn the steering wheel.