Full throttle = flat on its face
 

I've got my transition into boost tuned quite decently now and am beginning to tune my boost ranges.

I have done up to 5-6psi so far and am pretty stable at 10.5:1...but I have been 1/4 and 1/2 throttling it to get those pressures under 4500RPM......

I tried last night to pull 10psi out of it at 4K, so I tried going WOT at 3K....as soon as I get to about 85% throttle, the engine just hits a wall.

I have enabled the full throttle map, but have just began tuning it....its about 4ms @ 2K ramping up to 7ms @ 4K then going straight across the board from there...

The wideband doesn't really have time to react since as soon as I hit full throttle it would lurch and I would back off and the readings would shoot lean (decel fuel cut enabled)

Now, that was *rolling* into full throttle fairly gently. I don't think it was fast enough to trigger throttle pump...

So I tried again with full throttle map DISabled and got the same results....just falls on its face at WOT.

Is there something I should check? Is there a way to disable throttle pumps for a couple runs to just see if its the throttle pumps activating (and being semi-tuned) causing the issue?

Input please :)

Whats your setup combination, ECU, mods, injectors, ignition, etc?

How are your fuel pressures when this happens?

What kind of mS values are you running from 5psi on up?

E6X

1/2 bridge S5 TII keg
T04-R on a greddy log mani.
46mm Greddy Type R wastegate
Manual boost controller
Large front mount (FD godspeed)
750 pri. 1600 secondaries (brand new RC pri. Brand new bosch sec.)
stock FC coils (4.0 charge time)
9's all around

Fuel pressure is a base 40psi (pump on, car off)
Not sure what its doing at full throttle since I only have a on-regulator gauge, no in cabin. If I had it on a dyno I could tell you.......

@ 52kpa I'm running 4.451ms on up to 7.6ms @ 103kpa (totally un-tuned up there...I'm only running 10.5:1 until about 5psi, then it flattens out @10.0:1)

I should mention that it will do this anytime I go full throttle, vaccum, boost, 1500RPM, 3500RPM, whenever.

messed with the throttle pump settings?

I don't use a full throttle map.

You can turn off the throttle pump maps on the e8 and e6k so I would assume you can on the e6X.

I have the same problem as you but it only happens under 2500rpm when I transition into boost.

What about your tps? Calibrated? Maybe you have it set full range? Check to make sure you have total resistance across full thottle movement.

Check your MS Charge value under ignition setup. It should be between 4 and 4.6ms. Any higher will get you major ignition breakup at mid to high rpms.

Well, I think I found the problem.

I had turned the full throttle map off after getting the first stumble, but must have not clicked apply, only OK, and closed the screen. I checked last night and it was still enabled and the map was pretty well fully un-tuned. :ret:

Ive got it working good now, I'm finding I'm needing to use the full throttle map though sicne alot of my cruising areas are lean (around 2500rpm) when I go WOT and start to build boost I get a BIG lean area with the map turned off.

I suppose it won't hurt since its still *building* boost and not under tremendous load, but I'd rather have the AFR's solid and "rich" while I'm standing on it.

If you are going lean under full throttle operation, instead of working around what could be a sloppy tune (no offense), take the time to work on the fuel maps a little bit, ive never had to resort to the full throttle map on a 13B before, unless of course its such a wildly ported engine that its necessary, so im sure you can tune it properly.

But also, 10.5-10 : 1 AFR is kinda rich for 93 Oct, i would raise it up a little bit, thats why you're probably falling flat on your face, its way too rich. Cause those mS values and that injector combo will definitely make it too rich.

I'm running swill BTW (91) so I'm thinking 11 flat is my limit....would that be somewhat accurate? the 10.5:1 is still being leaned out a bit...

but I should keep working the main fuel map you think? I'm quite new to tuning so it IS sloppy, there's no probably there :)

I'll keep logging and pulling and making changes and see what I get.

+1.

Disable the full throttle map. That's for non-turbo setups that use a consistent load point. Yours is a MAP-based setup where pressures in the manifold vary, hence requiring the use of the fuel and ignition maps for determining fuel output.

B

Not on the stock FC ignitor/coil packs it won't. The only problem I've seen with a high dwell charge was 5+ms where it began to fry the trail-pack. Otherwise, never had an issue with it and I typically tune my maps for 4.7-4.8ms. Running over 7 years strong with that.

B

Base map for ClassicAutoBody
 

Hey Joe, here's a base map for you I just cooked up. Going to post it here for others as well. Now everyone's going to see how I do the spark advance curves for partial bridgeports. This one's for the E6X. I noticed the original map I made for you was for the E6K. Woops.

http://bdc.cyberosity.com/v/Technica...JPBP1_6XM.html

What you'll need to do is copy in your Trigger Angle and Tooth Offset values from your existing map (Ignition Setup), assuming that you've got your timing zero'd out exactly. If you don't, myself or Claudio can give you a hand with it.

No PWM's are configured on this map so if you have some, put 'em in.

The map should be real, real close to the hardware setup you've listed on your post. If you need help or have questions about it, call me and I'll tell you what to adjust and how to adjust them.

B

its really great to see people help out!
i still have that BASE MAP you sent VIA emai BDC and i hope to have the 7 up and running sometime within the next 2 months....i hope i still can give you a call for help?

Thanks for the help guys, I'm getting some of the kinks worked out sans full throttle map.

I guess I'm just getting better altogether because my cruise areas are now decent (14's) and transitioning into 11kpa is around 12 and up to 5 psi is 11.0 or high 10's

Lots to go yet though!! :lol:

Try the map I uploaded up on my site. Should put you in the ballpark. That's a map based upon a very similar setup w/ the same turbocharger compressor, too.

B

Will do Brain, thanks :)

Thanks Joe, and don't call me Brain. :p

B

Brian, doesn't it sound like the issue I was having with the UEGO AFR, and not the Voltage AFR?

It would read lean, but be stupid rich.