E8/FD ign problem - possible setting issue?
 

First, a little background: FD Stock ignition system (coils, ignitor), newbie installer and tuner (me).

So I've been trying to get this thing started for the last couple days and I'm just not getting any spark.

Initially, I wasn't getting power to the ignitor and coils. I tracked that problem down and fixed it... still no spark. I'm thinking it has to be a settings issue of some sort. I'm 99% certain the wiring is correct (as per the E8 instruction manual - IGN1 to L1 and L2, IGN3 to T1, IGN4 to T2 in Waste Spark mode).

So in this situation, what trigger/ignition settings should I need to get it started.
I was using a slightly modified version of the 13B-REW_Base_E8 map that Claudio posted in one of the stickies to get me started (DESCRIPTION: "FD Base Map for stock injectors and for E8. The ignition output is set to wasted spark so you connect Ign1 to the leading and Ign2 and Ign3 to each trailing"). I also don't have the type of CAS that is pictured in the Hitman installs, so that threw me off a little bit for the tooth offset and whatnot. I have the timing wheel behind the pullies... not sure how that affects the settings.

Basically, at this point I'm pretty lost. I am getting rpm, so it leads me to beleive it is something in the ignition settings that isn't initiating a spark signal for any of the coils. Of course I'm just guessing here. Also, if I am using the correct settings and I'm still not getting spark, what else could be wrong?

Any help anyone can provide would be much appreciated.

Thanks!

How are you verifying spark?

Have you pulled the spark plug boot off the coil or spark plug and verify spark?
Be careful when doing this so you don't get shocked with 20,000+ volts!

Most timing guns have problems picking up the signal off the stock coils.


-Ted

I am pulling the plug and looking for spark against the block. I haven't even hooked up the timing light yet since it doesn't even want to fire up.

Are there any other situations that would prevent the coils from firing (incorrect wiring of sensors, etc)?

Just noticed the capacitor (I think that's what it is) connected to the top corner of the ignitor (and ground) is unplugged. What does this plug into? It looks like a 6 inch black/red wire with a single pin connector on the end. Don't know if that's the problem or not, but I can't find it in the FSM.

I assume this is using stock coils.... Here you go:

Wiring:
Ignition Output 1 (light green) to Leading Coils
Ignition Output 2 (white/black) to Trailing Coils
Ignition Output 3 (green/black) to Ignition Toggle

Software Setup:
Spark Type – Distributor
Charge Time – 4.5ms
Spark Edge – Falling

Wasted Spark mode is not usable. If this is what Claudios MAP comes with, it is incorrect.

Make these changes, and you should be good to go.

Also, the Trigger setup should be RELUCTOR MODE, Multitooth Rotary 24 teeth.

Tooth offset of 5, Trigger angle at 65*, with LOCK TIMING at -5*, and you will set your BASE IGN TIMING off of TRAILING 1, with a LOCK TIMING SPLIT of 15*. The timing mark on the Pulley is at -20*... so if you lock timing at -5, with a split of 15*, your Trailing mark should line up with the mark.

E-8/11/1.62ver./build29 firm. Trigger/Ignition Setup for a FD--->

Type of Trigger System............ Multi Tooth Rotary
Trigger Sensor Type................ Reluctor Mode
Home Sensor Type.................. Reluctor Mode
Trigger Signal Edge................. Falling
Home Signal Edge................... Falling

Trigger/Home Filter Level......... Variable depending on trial and error. Start with 1

Trigger/Home Gain...................Variable depending on trial and error. Start with 0

IGNITION SETUP.

Timing Group

Trigger Angle............. 84 (variable based on zeroing ignition timing)
Tooth Offset.............. 3
Constant Charge Time... 3.5ms
Spark break time........... 600

Ignition Mode Group

Spark Mode................. Waste Spark
Ignition Spark Edge..... Falling
Trailing Spark Edge...... Falling
Dwell Mode.................. Constant Charge
Trailing Dwell Mode...... Constant Charge

Also on the Main Setup Page

Advanced Section

1st Rotor to fire....... 1
2nd Rotor to fire...... 2
Rotor 1 Angle BTDC...... 0
Rotor 2 Angle BTDC...... 180

The above setup should get you started and running.
If you're still not getting spark at the coil but have RPM reading on the laptop then check wiring to ignitor. If wiring is good make sure ignitor is grounded properly to chassis. Still no spark then try another ignitor.

This setup is for the stock FC/ 2nd Gen, not for the 3rd Gen FD ignition.

Thanks davedge and crispeed for your responses.

The settings from the base map were pretty close to what was suggested. I beleive it came with a tooth offset of 11, but I had changed it to 1 and 3 in my own testing without any luck.

I verified the wiring again and it looks good. When you say "make sure ignitor is grounded properly to chassis", is there some special way I should be grounding it? As far as I know, it's pretty solidly grounded... I have never removed it.

I'm trying to pick up another ignitor from the for sale section. I will probably get another set of coils too, just in case.

A couple more things:
I'm still using v1.59 (build 28 firmware, I beleive). Doubt it's the problem, but I'm going to update to 1.62/29 anyways.

The haltech site mentions:
"Check that you have a good RPM signal. You should see a cranking speed of between 100 - 250 RPM.
Check the home signal. If you have a good trigger, but no home signal, the RPM may read correctly, but no injection will fire."

I'm only seeing 60ish rpm when cranking, and it is a little erratic (frequently drops to 0). I will play with the filter/gain settings to see if I can get a more solid number here (and hopefully it is higher). I checked the Trigger Diagnostic datapage and it seems like I'm getting a home and trigger signal. The home signal counts pretty quickly up to 255 and then restarts at 1. The trigger counter increases as well, but more slowly. In my limited experience, this makes sense. The Trigger Count at Last Home stays at 1, however. I haven't seen it move yet.

Any chance the the ignition on my haltech may be fried?

Thanks again for your help. I'll let you know if I make any progress.

You've got the trigger and home wires mismatched. Fix them and you should be ok.

Wow. You hit that nail right on the head. I actually took a picture of those connectors when I took everything apart and that is what I used when I put it back together. I guess I wired them up wrong when I was making the ecu connections. Guess I was in that 1% of a potential wiring error. WOOPS.

Thanks a ton for everyone's help.

Greg