E6X ignition issuses
 

I am getting ingnition break up between 5000rpm and 6000rpm. The engine will not excead 5500rpm on a half throtle free rev, it sounds as if the engine runs into the rev limiter. On the data log I am getting RPM spikes into the 5 digits (16,000rpm). While watching the engine data page you can see the rpm display jump from 4 digits to 5 digits.

I have replaced the leading coil, afr's in area where we are starting to tune (under 10psi) are in the high 11's.

I am guessing that a temporary fix would be to disable the rev limiter, under that condition the ecu would just refer up the load colum to what ever RPM it thinks that it is seeing.

The issue is not load dependant, it is RPM dependant. Has any one experienced this problem before?? Could this be CAS issue, a wiring issue (even though there are NO ignition issues below 5000 rpm), could this be an internal problem with the Haltech?

Thanks
Ryan

Ryan, sounds like you are getting "interference" on your trigger/home input. Sometimes what happens when you get RFI on your trigger/home input, is the ECU thinks it is seeing a higher engine speed, than what it is currently at, and will enable the REV LIMIT function. So your ECU is doing exactly what it should, and should not be considered to have any "internal" problems... Each application will have different needs, but things to look out for are:

Running trigger wires TOO close to your ALTERNATOR, IGNITION LEADS, IGNITION COILS, etc...

Once you have this taken care of, you will probably want to ground the 4 core shield ground on the ECU side of the wire.

Now, you will want to adjust your GAIN settings in your TRIGGER SETUP. When setting your TRIGGER/HOME GAIN, you want to use the lowest setting, while still maintaining a clean RPM signal.I would start around 1 or 2, and adjust it up from there, untill you can cleanly rev through the full RPM range.

If this does not clear things up, you may have to check your tolerances in the CAS itself, ensuring that the sensor is correctly spaced from the 24+2 teeth(trigger/home).

It should also be noted that the E6X will most likely work better on a 2nd Gen with gain settings of no more than 1, sometimes even zero, and a filter setting of 1 will help things, sometimes even 2.

Also, is your timing properly zero'd in? if its not then you might get something like this, sinec the timing might be a tad off.

The timing is zeroed, The sheilding for the pick up wires is grounded to the chasis, the alt wires and the pick up wires cross only once at the alt/CAS intersection. I went into the setup pages and noticed that the trigger angle was at 90, I set that to 65, I tried change the off set from 11 to five with no results, I raised the gain/filter on the home and trigger from 1,0 to 3,2 and the problem continued. Changing the trigger angle from 90 to 65 made the problem SIGNIFICANTLY better. The engine acctually free reved and pulled all the way through the gears, BUT there were still TWO hick ups consistantly through the 5000-6000 area.

I will next try a different CAS, what else should I be looking at. Is there a possibility that the ECU it self is damaged??

if you zero the timing and then change the triger angle from 90 to 65 youve just advanced the timing by 25 degrees across the board. The cas has to be stabbed properly for your trigger angle setting. After ever change to triger angle timing must be re zeroed.

The timing was zeroed after the change of the trigger angle

If playing with the gains doesnt fix it (as previously stated usually not more than 1 is needed), and everything else is done correctly, you can open up the CAS and move the magnets closer in to the wheel. This has fixed the problem on many cars i've seen. Make sure to use a feeler gauge to do this.

be carefull playing with gains, I blew up an engine a wile back doing this. The only change was advancing the trigger gain from 2 to 3 on an E8.

Then what is the tolerance on the magnets to the pickup wheel inside the CAS??

I've found you have to go closer than the factory spec sometimes. I would measure what the gap is currently, then try gradually reducing it by small increments until the trigger issues are gone. Whatever you do don't put engine under high load until you have this resolved.

A few questions. Is this with stock coils? What plugs and what boost lvl's?

Cause this is the same problem i had. I traced the problem to ignition. Nothing with the setup on the E6X.

I changed from stock FD coils to Crane LX92 and a Autronic 500r box and the ignition breakup was almost gone with stock plugs. Changed to 11 iriduim plugs the break up was completely gone in all boost ranges.

Now im running a Autronic SM4 with the same ignition setup. And if i put in stock plugs i get ignition breakup over 7000 rpm.

So it's just your coils that can't handle it. And don't give u enough spark, so it get blown out by the pressure.

So if u do some changes to your ignition system the problem will solve it self.

This is with stock FC coils BUT the break up is not load dependant, it is RPM dependant. There may be something wrong with the ignitors, I have already replaced both the leading and the trailing. I am now in the process of installing the motor. The previous motor was assembled wrong and lasted all of about 600 miles from when the previous owner put it together. So I will post back up my results after the break in.

This is not true, he stated in a datalog the RPM was spiking to 16000rpm. This is because of a trigger pickup issue. E6x will work with stock coils/stock plugs.

Although buying a bunch of aftermarket ignition stuff might solve the problem, it would be purely by chance.

You should do the following:
1. Make sure the CAS harness is built well, good solder joints, don't run it alongside alternator/plug wires.

2. try to change gain values on haltech, see if it improves the problem

3. move CAS magnets closer

Okay so she is up and running now. Playing with the gains and filters (1,2) the problem is better. I am now going to pull apart the harness and verify that it was assembled correctly.

What are the factory tolerences for the pickup magnets in the CAS??? What is the closest that the magnets can be before the tolerance begins to cause problems??

Okay so it's up and running now and there is a new problem. I replaced the CAS, nothing, I verified the resistance across the magnets, I adjusted the clearance from .017" down to .014". Both sides of the shiedling wire for the Haltech pick up wires are grounded. The gain setting is 0 the filter setting is 2, the timing is veriffied.

All of the prevoius tach jumping has been eliminated, the Haltech is displaying clean RPM numbers, although I can not rev the engine up to the RPM range were I was see ignition issues right now, all of the other issues that I WAS having are now eliminated. I am now having a problem starting and idleing below 1100 rpm. IF I drive the car with rpm below 1100 rpm the tach needle jumps down to 300 rpm, and the car begins to buck and jump due to miss fire it will idle like this on it's own but not for long and with poor quality right around to 300 rpm range. If I pump the gas I can get it to respond and to jump up to the current idle speed of about 1400 rpm, starting the car takes the same hit and miss apporach of pumping the gas when the engine catches but eventually will start and will idle if the revs are keep above the 1100-1200 range.

Any guesses as to the cuase of the problem, or where I should look now for the issue.

I remember hearing about the E6X having ignition issues on the rotories when it first came out, what exactly was that issue and what was the fix that Haltech implimented??

How about tuning the fuel and ignition maps?


-Ted

Well it's not about tuning the maps, the timing map is good and the fuel map has not changed.

and besides if this were a tunning issue the tach needle wouldn't jump as if it were unpluged.

Post some datalogs maybe?

What about the firmware upgrades for the E6X?? Where can I find them??

I had a break up problem when driving under light load. It worsened when I did the alternator relocation. The tach needle would drop and the car would hessitate.

I then removed the alternator and drove the car and the break up went away. Odd, so I swapped in a spare alternator and it was perfect. I also tweaked the gains.

Break up came back 5 months later this time above 5k and 5psi. I installed an MSD 6A and it got rid of it.

This was all on the E6K. Also, you are supposed to ground your CAS shielding at one point...not two...I think that creats something called a ground fault...loop or some jazz.

Anyway , here was my thread about the first break up problem. Good luck.
https://www.rx7club.com/haltech-forum-62/bucking-along-tach-needle-bouncing-470609/


James

bump it up

So, its not alternator noise?

I'd check your injectors.

You could have easily wired a secondary back wards.

lol i've done this once and car will run.

Hell i've even wired primaries and it still would run and idle...... like crap but still would run.

FYI after adjusting filters I have never had problems with pick up on the Haltech. I got some spikes on FC and FD before i reduced gains but after that they all went away.