E6K crank angle sensor inputs help
 

not exactly rx7 applicable, but figure some of you might be able to offer some better info than Haltech can itself at this time or maybe you can forward me to a shop with a good haltech knowledge.

Using Haltech E6K

Basically trying to use a stock internal reluctor type sensor on a single cylinder motor. Hooked up to an oscilliscope it outputs a 100mV internal reluctor type signal that is opposite what the manual says it likes (negative then positive) so we switched the leads and it looks good on the scope, but haltech doesnt seem to like it reversed like that. It pushes this signal at approximately 10*BTDC every revolution of the crank. Hooked up unreversed as internal reluctor signal at 10btdc on the setup page we get a signal while cranking the motor over, but it goes to 0 once it is started using a Carb. maybe something simple like the fact that we have nothing hooked up but this signal while running the motor on a carb has something to do with it as some of them are getting "Fault" numbers (Wat Temp, etc) or some BS resistance from the air...(TPS, 02, MAP, etc).

Other inquries as well, but i figure i'll save myself from typing them until someone can come forward with a good understanding of the system.

Did you mess with the rising/falling setting?


-Ted

havent messed with that yet - figured it was good set at rising edge since it was picking it up as i cranked over the engine using the starter....

any other ideas Ted?

Actually, it's supposed to be falling.&nbsp Stock FC/FD triggers at falling.&nbsp The 10-degree difference was a good hint, as that's about the timing difference when you toggle between rising/falling.&nbsp I would change that first and see if you can nail the locked timing...



-Ted

10-degree difference?

maybe i need to clarify from above:

When the metal passes by the sensor the crank IS at about 10*BTDC

I hope that's it, that's one of only a few things left to change to get it to work....I gave up on it after an hour of tooling with it and we started playing with mounting it in the chassis instead.

I just need the haltech to get SOME sort of good signal while its running. we're just using it to control the fuel injector - ignition is being kept in stock magneto form...

I'll try to get it back on the test stand tomorrow and see if that does anything for me....

I tried to reread your first post, and I'm confused as ever.&nbsp Are you talking about your FD or some other vehicle?&nbsp How did you some up with the 10-degree BTDC mark?



-Ted

he is working on a single cylinder motorcycle engine, but I didn't understand the 10btdc reference either. he needs to experiment with the ignition settings to find the right setup or call the boys in australia with the o-scope info.

Crap, I totally missed that part!&nbsp I really need to get some sleep!


-Ted

when the engine is at about 10*BTDC the sensor is directly in line with the peice of metal beneath it which sends the signal. The haltech usually likes this signal between 50 and 100*BTDC (70 is most common).

haltech USA is shut down
calling to australia is expensive as hell
thats why i ask for a name of a shop that could maybe answer my questions.

I have played for hours with the ignition settings, read the manual a few times, put it to an o-scope, etc

I may just give up soon and try to make a wheel and wire up a hall effect sensor and some magnets soon if i cant get this right how it is stock...

someone please let me know if you can help or know of someone who can

thanks

it sounds like you answered your own question. you need to have the pickup somewhere between 70-100* before TDC so the ECU has time for the calculations. if you cannot move the pickup or change the magnet's location then a chopper wheel will be needed. on my 13b I have the CAS installed 90*BTDC. I thought your problem was no picking up the signal? this would lead me to think the settings in the setup menu are wrong. if it just won't run right then the initial setup of the crank angle sensing device maybe wrong. all of this is in the manual. if the phone is to expensive I would drop them(haltech Aus tech support) a very detailed email and maybe leave them a phone number and contact info and maybe they will call you back.

already wrote them an email last week when i posted this here.

was trying to find someone on this board or in the states period who knows something, but no one seems to be able to tell me anything i dont already know or that isnt in the manual.

I thought i was pretty clear about what the problem is. it WILL pick up a signal while cranking the motor over, but as soon as the motor kicks over (using a carb to run the engine) it begins to read "O" for RPMs.

so none of you know a shop with some sort of haltech guru??

BTW, it is not a magnet passing by the sensor - its not a hall effect type. there is a circular peice of metal on the housing of the magneto that passes the sensor which pulses an internal reluctor type signal each time the motor is at about 70* BTDC. I dont want to just hack up the whole casing and put in another one of these sensors until i can see that it will read correctly on the haltech. as of right now it shouldnt matter where the sensor is. it is just pushing a signal to the haltech and the haltech is ONLY hooked up to this sensor (and power source of course) - i just need to see it WORK and then i can move it to the appropriate position so that the fuel injection will be timed correctly.

an internal reluctor signal goes from 0V up in an X^2 type of curved line until when the metal is directly under the sensor and then it goes straight down to a negative voltage and then back up in an inverse of that previous x^2 type of fashion.....roughly....
the haltech requests that it goes positive THEN negative.
I tested my sensor on an ossciliscope. there are 2 wires - a blue wire and a black wire. taking signal from the blue wire and battery ground as the ground i get a negative and then positive signal. reversing the wires reverses the curve and goes positive first then. haltech says put the positive line to Trigger input and negative one to Input B. IIRC, that is how it is hooked up now blue to trigger, black to input B....something was fishy about it all though and i cant remember now. maybe i had to reverse the blue and black wires or it was the black wire & ground that were giving me a good signal. I have taken a break from the CAS setup to work on mounting the engine in the chassis and other work to integrate some other componenets.

I think i may just go ahead and order a hall effect sensor from haltech and some of their little magnets and rig up something since no one seems to be able to help.....they are SO DAMN SLOW though....if any of you have this stuff in stock so i dont ahve to get it from AU, please pleeeeeeaaase let me know.

TIA,

-Nic

are you using the o-scope on the stock sensor while the engine is running? or just moving it back and forth on the test bench? seems like there is an interferance problem if it "loses" the signal after the engine fires. I assume you are using sheilded wires and resistor type spark plugs as well as sheilded wire for the pick up wiring. As for people who might stock the pick up switch I don't have anybody nobody seems to stock any of these parts. I have several contacts for Haltech installs and service but they would not even talk with you about an application they don't have experience with. have you tried any of the formula SAE college teams? some have used Haltech products on there motorcycle engined projects.

using o-scope while running the engine on a carb, it outputs a signal all the time - that's why this doesnt make sense to me.

this IS being constructed for FSAE competition, but i dont know of anyone who has run a single cylinder successfully and especially one not of this type....

I am thinking maybe i can just use a hall effect sensor from haltech and put the magnets on the outside of the magneto wheel. Since it wants a non-ferrous surround i might have to machine a larger aluminum ring for the magnets to mount in....not sure how i would connect it to the magneto housing though b/c i dont want to drill into it......maybe some JB weld....haha

could it be screwing up just b/c it is only getting an input from the trigger inputs in the harness??

nothing else is hooked up so water temp and others are getting fault values and ones like o2, MAP, and TPS are getting random values probably based on the resistance of the air or something.

could that cause the haltech to freak out?

Hey!
Give Frank a call at 305-233-8520.

crispeed

I am not sure of this one but I have tested RX7 CAS by connecting the CAS to the system and spinning the CAS by hand while the engine was not running and it showed a change in rpm. as for other FSAE teams not using your exact engine, this maybe the case but they may have info on different sensors that are compatible with the E6K. good luck I wish I had a chance to participate in FSAE when I was in engineering school.