13b turbo?!>!
 

alright here's the stuff............
about 1 months ago i bought a flawless looking 1987 rx7 turbo with 110,500 miles on it, for $3200.
we drove it back (a three hour trip).
at the gas station we shut it off and filled it up, but when i tried to turn it on it would start. it would turn over but wouldn't start.........
after about 15minutes it starts, and smells like fuel BAD.
It would run but would only start cold.

One day it just wouldn’t start.........

i took it to an rx7 shop, 2 weeks later, and the guy said it failed 5 of 6 compression checks. and everything including the turbo was shot.
he offered to install a rebuilt engine for $3500 but he had to buy the fuel system and turbo system separately, turbo system costing $1500 and the fuel system costing $1500.
so i was looking at $6500.
i said fuck that. i was about to sell it, until i found a shop called the rx7 store.
they said the other guy has rippin' me off big time!!

they did a compression check, 100% in the front and 60% in the back.
they said no fuel leaks at all!
they said it smells like fuel because it's an older car.
the reason it wasn't running was because of carbon build up!
so the guy put automatic transmission fluid in the spark plug holes and let it run burning it all out. i am supposed to do this every month.
they replaced my spark plugs for 14 dollar each plugs
and my battery. (according to them that was all the trouble: plugs, battery, and carbon buildup)

i was told i could get around 10,000 more miles out of it if it was taken care of.
on the way home today i got onto the free way about 5 minutes from the shop.
after putting it in 5th gear the engine slowly started to die down and stopped.
I WAS PISSED!!

end of story.
could it be the alternator??
or could there be a problem with the fuel system??
I got no clue.
i need it to last me for at least another year (financial situation)
and then eventually am going to get a JDM engine or a rebuild if i have the money.
it came with tokico and racing beat suspension and racing beat exhaust system, wich is eventually going to be the apexi N1 exhaust system :D

thanks for any help guys.
i may have to sell it even though it's a VERY nice car!!

peace

It's possible that the turbo and engine could fail at the same time (or maybe it could have had a turbo problem for a while but you didn't notice yet). But it's also possible they are trying to rip you off. No reason to buy new fuel parts except a couple of hoses and gaskets you need when you replace the engine, but ECU, injectors etc. should all be fine.

60% on the back is pretty low and you'll probably be looking at a rebuild eventually, but not just yet.

It sounds like you might have a flooding problem when you shut it off. This will prevent it from starting. This is probably due to faulty (or maybe just dirty!) fuel injectors. Since it only starts cold, that probably means the fuel has had time to drain out of the engine. You'll find fuel in your oil if this happens too often. To see if this is the problem, unplug the "engine" fuse and crank the engine. If it's flooded, you'll notice a slight change in the sound as the flood clears. Replace the engine fuse and, if your plugs aren't too bad, it should start!

However this would not explain why the engine dies after it's run for a while. I once had a similar problem which turned out to be ignition coils. They run fine when they're cold, then when they get too hot, they quit working. For me, however, this was only in hot weather, which you are probably not getting in Ohio this time of year. But, checking ignition coils is a relatively painless procedure. Unfortunately, ignition coils are expensive. Look into an MSD upgrade. It's not much better than stock, but it is cheaper.

You might have other fuel problems too. Pump, plugged up fuel line, whatever. Sometimes the wiring corrodes and the pump doesn't pump even though all the mechanical parts are fine. There's a simple workaround that wires the pump to run at 100% all the time - makes it louder, and probably doesn't last quite as long, but works a lot better.

Usually even a blown engine runs pretty well on the highway. Your main symptoms are generally going to be rough/no idle, tons and tons of smoke and, sometimes, mixing of oil and coolant. You'll have a loss of power, but TOTAL loss of power is rare. And it certainly won't start right up again after a few hours/days. Whatever you've got, it's not a blown motor (although with such low compression on the rear rotor you are getting close)...

Oh, a couple other things. Sometimes a smell of fuel is the fuel pulsation damper, which is a safety issue (can cause engine fire). But if you are flooding the engine a lot, fix that before you worry about the pulsation damper. Putting transmission fluid in the spark plug holes will help clear a flooded engine, but it's nothing like a maintenance procedure. If the engine's not flooded it won't do anything. The engine not running because of carbon buildup is bogus. Sometimes carbon deposits will make the engine seize up (if you shut off the car before it warms up and are fantastically unlucky) but they absolutely will not make it lose power and die. It's not the alternator as all the warning lights will come on at once if that is bad.

personally it sound slike you may have gotten in over your head. But you are in, so its time to start digging your way out. If I were you I would go to my local credit union, put $50 in a savings account to get a membership and apply for a $3000 personal loan. Even with only moderate credit you can usually get such a loan. The payments over 3 years would be like $60 a month at around 12-13% interest. Take that money and buy a new engine and replace it. Thats what I would do. You will have to decide if thats something you are up to doing.


BC

alright, thatnks alot.
yea the low compression in the back kind of scares me.
later on today i am going to try and clean the spark plugs nad mess with the engine fuse procedure your talking about (i saw the mechanic do that at the rx7store)
i will also look into the other list of problems it may be thanks alot for your help.

lol the thing is i am already paying off a $3500 loan for a year.
payment is $305 a month.
and i got laid off of my job.
so i am trying to get another and only making small amounts of cash right now.
thanks man

I'm sorry you didn't come here sooner. Turbo rotaries aren't really the type of engine that will respond well to someone on a limited income. they suck gas, require maintnence and sometimes like to pop.

yea i know that now.
and i'm sorry too.

like to pop????

here's the update......

i took out the EGI fuse, cranked it a few times to un flood it, and put the fuse back in. it sounds like it wants to start but just will not!....?

the guy at the rx7store called me today and asked if that was my rx7 on the AAA truck last night ,lol :D
yea it was!!
i ran by everything that "fluffysheap" brought up.
including: if he thought the fuel pump was bad: NO
if he thought the ignition coils were bad: NO
the fuel injectors (again): and NO
he had reasons for all.
he is convinced that it is the spark plugs

a couple days ago i had him check the fuel system for leaks.
he found none and says the fuel injectors are not leaking or faulty.
i went out and bought some oil treatment stuff and some injector cleaner.

tomorrow i am getting my spark plug wrench back, so i can do what the mechanic said: pull out the plugs, clean them, and switch the bottom with the top ones.
then do the EGI fuse procedure, to unflood the engine.
i hope this works.
peace

I can believe spark plugs for at least part of the problem, especially since flooding makes them deteriorate quickly. But I've never seen spark plugs so bad that you will just randomly stall and die on the highway. Hard to start, yes, fail emissions, yes, die on the highway, no. I still think it's ignition coils although I am curious why the rx7store guy thinks it isn't.

One thing you can look for - if you are on the highway and your power fails, look at the tach. If it goes to 0 and the engine is still turning, it's ignition, guaranteed.

hey why don't ya post the 5th gear question in the second gen section,and see what everyone else has to say..the coils thing seems to be a good place to start,but it could be a few other things also...I've owned a few 7's and never had a problem with the coils,but that dosn't mean that aint whats wrong.

what is the car's history? particularly, what size injectors and pump are fueling the engine? just have a feeling ...

i didn't think it was spark plugs because we changed them a week ago.
but the guy says they put put some "stuff" in the engine that probably made them gunk up.

i brought up ignition coils to him and told him the things you said happened when your coils were bad.
be said "no i don't think it's the coils" with no explaination.
so i don't know.
i'm going to try and clean the plugs, and if that doesn't work i will have the ignition coils looked at.
thanks

well the guy i bought it from installed a roll bar in it, he said he only took it to the track a few times, but i'd say otherwise.
no accidents or anything. everything is stock in it except the guy installed an upgraded wastegate.
he said he kept having trouble starting it sometimes, and would have to turn the key 7 or 8 times, he went out and bought a starter and installed it himself, but it still had the same problem. (he tinkered with the car frequently in and out)
it ran pretty decently when i bought it. it had tokico struts and racing beat springs, and a racing beat exhaust system.
he said he thought the car would flood sometimes (he really didn't know much about cars or rx7's for that matter) so he installed a switch in the tray undernieth
the deck cd player, i guess the switch will cut off and turn on the fuel pump or something?

thanks everyone.

BTW how common is it to have the ignition coils go bad???
peace

Depends on the car. I knew one guy who went through three in two years. I've had one go bad since I started with rotaries in '98 (which caused the same symptoms you have - flooding, dying on the highway and hard starting). Some people never have problems.

And, maybe it isn't the coils. Everyone's biased from their own experience. :)

A fuel cutoff switch on the '86-'88s isn't a bad idea, or uncommon (89+ has one built in and '84-'85 have the engine fuse in such an easy place that it's basically the same as a switch, but '86-88 makes it annoying). It also means the car has had flooding issues for a while.

If you take the plugs out and they look bad then replace them, otherwise keep looking. You'll flood the car several more times probably before you figure it out. Also, don't overlook the spark plug wires. If they're really old, may as well get new ones while you're at it.

well today i took teh spark plugs out, and they were wet with fuel.
i dried them off and put the m all back in.
the car started, but wouldn't idle.
you had to keep it past 1000 rpm or it would shut off.
i called the rx7 guy and he said there is some part in the engine (forget what he called it) but it has a screw on it and you can turn to adjust the idle.
he said that i need to boost the idle a bit and it should run fine.
will do that in a few days.
peace
BTW his explaination for the ignition coils was that they are either going to be bad or good, and if they're bad then your car will shut off and not start.

check to see if they are stuck open.

Most of what you need to know about adjusting idle on the Turbo II is here:
http://www.teamfc3s.org/info/articles/idle.html
You may need a shop manual or at least a Haynes manual to find the screws and connectors.
However that article does not cover adjustment of the throttle sensor (TPS), however, based on your symptoms it is unlikely that this is part of the problem.

Increasing the idle to deal with a stalling problem is a band aid and doesn't really fix anything. The car should idle at 750-800 rpm. If it won't, something is still wrong. Fiddling with the idle certainly won't have any influence on how well the car runs on the highway.

One other thing: Be sure to use anti-seize compound on the spark plug threads when you (re)install the plugs. Otherwise, after a few weeks, the spark plugs will weld themselves into the rotor housings. Most of the time this is just a big nuisance as it can be hard to get a lot of torque on the spark plugs due to the angle. But in extreme cases people have actually damaged their rotor housings trying to get the plugs out.

Do a compression check with a "regular" compression tester. If the rear rotor is below 85-90 psi it's trouble. Another isssue you may be having is injectors leaking. If your injectors haven't been serviced they are most likely dumping fuel in when they shouldn't be and washing out the combustion chamber when you are trying to start it when warm. Very common problem for an all original T2 with a tired engine.

the mechanic said it has no leaks in the fuel system.
i let it run today.
it won't idle below 800 rpm after letting it run for 15 minutes.
i do not feel comfortable messing with the idle sensor.
so i'll wait untill i have knowlegable person to help.

i am selling right now to pay off a loan, but want to try and get it running decently obviously the engine is not in the best of shape.
trying to get $2300 out of it. hopefully the buyer can bring a truck down to tow it back just to be safe.

thanks everyone.

800 rpm is fine. You don't need it any lower than that.

Injector leaks aren't always obvious... you really need to take the injectors out to test them to be sure. It's not an external leak that sprays fuel around but rather an internal one where the injectors can't close completely. Since the fuel is still pressurized when the car is off, fuel leaks out and floods the engine. You don't notice this while running because it's just not enough of a leak compared to how much fuel is going through them anyway.

I'm sad that you're selling the car but, if you can't do the work yourself and don't have any extra money, you're probably doing the right thing. Good luck :)

thanks man, i got an offer for $2900, but am hopefully going to sell it to the first guy that was interested.
(member here)
for $2800
thanks