Looking Great so far !
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Just a shot of the top of the fuel cell:
http://i916.photobucket.com/albums/a...FuelCell38.jpg Had to put some fuel line on the outside of the braided line to make sure it doesn't abraid the kevlar surge box: http://i916.photobucket.com/albums/a...FuelCell39.jpg Had to use special Teflon lined braided line with special fittings (speed flex hose) for in tank fuel use since there are new unpublished additives to some fuels, causing the standard rubber lined braided lines to swell. http://i916.photobucket.com/albums/a...FuelCell40.jpg |
Lost 20 pounds of polar mass by cutting that butt ugly spare tire tub out:
http://i916.photobucket.com/albums/a...ightening2.jpg http://i916.photobucket.com/albums/a...ightening5.jpg I just need to make a small sheet barrier to close it back off from the elements. There will be a lot more work stripping the rhino-liner I previously put down on the floor in the front. I am thinking either sand blasting or using that aircraft remover. I am not looking forward to that. |
awsome project!!!!!
good luck and and enjoy the reward |
Your in a grey area on removing that wheel well. The way to make it indisputable would be to make sure the fuel cell occupies a fraction of an inch of the space it used to be in. Or the 'floor' can be recessed for a muffler.
Looking good. |
Wow, the cage rules allow bent/curved side bars?
That's scary! |
Originally Posted by jgrewe
(Post 9689567)
Your in a grey area on removing that wheel well. The way to make it indisputable would be to make sure the fuel cell occupies a fraction of an inch of the space it used to be in. Or the 'floor' can be recessed for a muffler.
Looking good. |
I think the muffler is a great idea! Or I could use it for the fuel cell filler or something. Thanks!
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That material removal is about the back side of hoods and doors for lightening if you aren't using an alternate material.
You can't create holes in the chassis where there was none before unless its written out in the rules. One example is a hole in the core support for engine air behind a headlight opening. Even then they specifically limit the size. Your best bet is to 'need' it gone for fuel cell or muffler mounting. Or, dig through the scrap pile and keep it handy so you don't have to cut up another car to get the damn piece later when someone calls you on it. |
Originally Posted by jgrewe
(Post 9690683)
That material removal is about the back side of hoods and doors for lightening if you aren't using an alternate material.
You can't create holes in the chassis where there was none before unless its written out in the rules. One example is a hole in the core support for engine air behind a headlight opening. Even then they specifically limit the size. Your best bet is to 'need' it gone for fuel cell or muffler mounting. Or, dig through the scrap pile and keep it handy so you don't have to cut up another car to get the damn piece later when someone calls you on it. Edit: Just a random thought... could it be pulled off if I modified it to be a jack point? The place I part time work at jacks their ITA Integras from the same point, its really convenient. |
What are the rules on Lexan? Or something similar?
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Originally Posted by lonetlan
(Post 9691169)
What are the rules on Lexan? Or something similar?
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1/8 anywhere else, no front door windows in the 'up' position when running(so take them out, you don't need to haul them around the track)
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im jealous! nice work keep us posted
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You still have your wheels and the Kazz?
What are your plans for those? |
Originally Posted by NATEFRAME
(Post 9692163)
You still have your wheels and the Kazz?
What are your plans for those? |
Originally Posted by 10aeRX7
(Post 9692053)
im jealous! nice work keep us posted
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Originally Posted by shm21284
(Post 9691085)
I've never had to interperet rules before. I'll keep it around if I need it.
What I would do is, for every thing you plan on doing, highlight the specific passage in the GCR where it specifically says you can do it. Another thing to watch out for is "you may do X but it may serve no other purpose". So, to invent a rule instead of wading through a GCR I'm not entirely familiar with, being allowed to make brake ducts doesn't mean you can make a massive front spoiler/splitter arrangement with a couple holes and hoses attached and call it a legal brake duct. My absolute all-time creative interpretation of a GCR, was "Any hood may be used." So the unnamed party ziptied a Folger's lid to a hood hinge and said "There's my hood." It met the letter of the rules but not the spirit. He said that if a protest on it was upheld, he'd tape some Saran Wrap over the hood opening... Next year, the rule was rewritten :) Now it says something like "bodywork is open but car must be recognizable as the model entered." Which completely threw out my plan for hacking the useless front 18" off of the car... |
That cut out is fine. I'm only racing regionals. It says I can not create any non stock openings in the bodywork; that's not the body, that's the chassis. That's my interpretation.
If I went national, it may be a matter of concern. This is my first real race car, and I'm not going to be winning right away, especially on a national circuit. I'm not worried. |
Finished with the fuel cell! FINALLY!
Bracket for fuel filter and external pump:
http://i916.photobucket.com/albums/a...FuelCell45.jpg http://i916.photobucket.com/albums/a...FuelCell46.jpg http://i916.photobucket.com/albums/a...FuelCell44.jpg Plumbing the surge tank to the external pump: http://i916.photobucket.com/albums/a...FuelCell47.jpg http://i916.photobucket.com/albums/a...FuelCell48.jpg http://i916.photobucket.com/albums/a...FuelCell49.jpg |
From the GCR:
The body, unibody, frame and their components can be lightened, provided that structural rigidity is not compromised to the point of requiring additional support. No non-stock openings can be created in the bodywork. The lightening of the cars structure can not create any openings into the cockpit, or from the wheel well to the engine/trunk compartments. Existing seams in the unibody and frame can be welded. I don't see this as a hole in the bodywork or an opening directly from the wheel well to the trunk since it will be sealed due to fire safety reasons of the fuel cell. I'm adding a jack point there anyway, for convenience. |
yes i do... ill call in a little bit. Driving thru flint today. going to grandmas for christmas.
keep your wheels and kazz around for the time being. it seems that these rules are somewhat open to interpretation. Will you be using that huge aeromotive fuel pump from your more rambincious turbo days? |
I'm using the bosch 044 pump as seen above from the old turbo days. Flow tested at 375 liters/hour at 75 psi... lots of fuel for an EP car...
Base plates took all day today. Only got 1 completeley welded and another one mostly cut. Then I have the fronts. Also I started stripping the interior for weld and paint prep. I'll post pics tomorrow. |
Started Stripping Interior, Prepping Cage, and Made 2 Base Plates
Never ever EVER rhino-line your interior. Its such a PITA to get up. This was from before when i had the turbo. Worst idea of my life.
Before (the edges were covered by the dash, this is why it looks so crude). http://i916.photobucket.com/albums/a...0-24-09016.jpg Sort of after, still finishing it. Will end up going to bare metal by the time I'm done. What a pain in the dick. http://i916.photobucket.com/albums/a...tStripping.jpg Base plates: http://i916.photobucket.com/albums/a...asePlates1.jpg http://i916.photobucket.com/albums/a...asePlates2.jpg Mocking the cage with dental floss: http://i916.photobucket.com/albums/a...lCagePrep1.jpg http://i916.photobucket.com/albums/a...lCagePrep2.jpg http://i916.photobucket.com/albums/a...lCagePrep3.jpg All non-required bars are 1" x 0.049 wall and very lightweight. Total weight of tubing purchased was around 125 lbs, I won't use all of it for the cage. Around half of the tubing will be used for templates. The dental floss showed that I have to relocate my seat. I'll have to chop the factory seat brackets out and figure out a way to mount the seat to the ground. I'll also be ditching the sliding seat bracket. I'll gain about 4 inches of head room this way, and I won't have to run a bent harness bar move the main hoop back to under the vertical connection between the b-pillars. Instead, the main hoop will be high - just under where the sun room motor was mounted, which is as high as the cage can be. |
Looks like one of those security laser mock-ups!
If I may make a suggestion, run all the tubes in the rear to the actual shock mount tower. All the load is coming into the car from the springs inside those towers. Going anywhere but there and you lose the performance advantage you might gain from all the required safety weight. I just wrapped a plate around the whole tower so I could put a bunch of tubes to the same spot. Be sure to keep your plates under 100 sq in., 10" max in any one dimension. |
Originally Posted by jgrewe
(Post 9705925)
Looks like one of those security laser mock-ups!
If I may make a suggestion, run all the tubes in the rear to the actual shock mount tower. All the load is coming into the car from the springs inside those towers. Going anywhere but there and you lose the performance advantage you might gain from all the required safety weight. I just wrapped a plate around the whole tower so I could put a bunch of tubes to the same spot. Be sure to keep your plates under 100 sq in., 10" max in any one dimension. I could alternitavely go to the shock tower and build an elaborate brace to the frame rail for rollover protection. I think the largest it can be is up to 144 in^2 (i could be mistaken)... I'm well below that. Does this count for multi-plane plates such as mine? |
I had to go look at the rules, 144sq.in. is correct. 15" max in any dimension. They figure the dimensions if you lay the plate flat, not contact with the car.
The rules used to read 100 sq. in. maximum, 2" minimum in any dimension. The rule was re- written after I called Jim Litehauser for a clarification about 8 years ago. The rules consider the plate as the point and any number of tubes could go to it. I said,"So theoretically I could have a two by fifty inch plate in an IT car?" I was going to run the plates up the sides of the car to attach the cage to more of the chassis. His answer was, "Well, you could do that this year..." I could here him making notes. The next GCR had the 10" limit that we had for so long. |
your dentist is not going to be happy about this, your supposted to clean between your teeth with dental floss.
Its a start man!! Keep it up. |
Sunroof and More Lightening
Welding 0.063" Aluminum sheet is such a bitch. Tube is nowhere near as hard to weld as this stuff, as you have to watch for warpage. And when its a visible body panel, too much penetration looks horrible. I've never built a body panel before, so keep that in mind as you look at the pictures:
I had to chop out my seat mounts. The dental floss is a great tool (thanks to Crue Blakeley for the idea) to check head clearance and get a visual idea of what the cage will look like. Turns out, I would have hit my head on the X-brace. I also was going to hit my head on the A-pillar bar. So I cut the seat mounts out. I will mount my seat directly to the floor and reinforce it from the outside of the floor panel. http://i916.photobucket.com/albums/a...ightening6.jpg Here are some more pictures of the rear's cut out for the fuel cell and lightening of the vehicle. http://i916.photobucket.com/albums/a...ightening8.jpg I started making the sunroof. I am almost done. I have a few more hours to put into this thing to make the brackets and mount it to the car. I will most likely make it not easy to remove, as I don't see a need to remove it once its in. It will be bolted in, and the gap will be filled with Windo-Weld (3M's polyeurethane window sealer). If I ever need to take it out for any reason, I can just cut the sealer out with piano wire or a razor blade, then unbolt it. I contemplated using either half-round or square extruded rubber that is glued to the sunroof panel and butts up to the car, but I am unsure as to how well that will seal and how good the fitment will be. I may still buy a strip of that rubber extrusion from mcmaster and play with it to see if it works. It would be nice not to have to cut sealant out every time i need the sunroof out. However, a few people I know with race cars just permenantly seal them in place and never have problems. http://i916.photobucket.com/albums/a...4/SunRoof2.jpg I had to use this nifty machine: http://i916.photobucket.com/albums/a...oSlipRoll2.jpg http://i916.photobucket.com/albums/a...oSlipRoll1.jpg to do this: http://i916.photobucket.com/albums/a...4/SunRoof5.jpg Ribbing for strength http://i916.photobucket.com/albums/a...4/SunRoof7.jpg http://i916.photobucket.com/albums/a.../SunRoof10.jpg http://i916.photobucket.com/albums/a.../SunRoof11.jpg http://i916.photobucket.com/albums/a.../SunRoof12.jpg http://i916.photobucket.com/albums/a.../SunRoof13.jpg http://i916.photobucket.com/albums/a...4/SunRoof1.jpg The sunroof is almost finished, it just needs a center rib so it doesnt vibrate in the wind at 130+ mph. I weighed the factory sunroof panel (basically just the steel part that I ripped out from the frame and slider) at 12 lbs. This aluminum one is about 4 lbs, and its not rusting. I saved about 8 lbs at the highest point in the car. Then I'll add a bunch of weight back with the cage :P That slip roll will come in handy when I do my inner fender liners, my intake, and my heat shielding. |
Originally Posted by peejay
(Post 9690030)
Wow, the cage rules allow bent/curved side bars?
That's scary! |
You're just building this car so you can use all the cool toys! I was about to order a set of wheels to make an English wheel but the best company to buy from up in Indiana stopped making them.
One thing you can do to pick up more head room above the door window is to slice the inner roof support front to back and hammer it in toward the roof skin. I started doing it on FB's a long time ago and you can pick up about an inch. Don't be afraid to tilt your seat in at the top a little as well. Once you're buckled in you'll never notice. |
Originally Posted by jgrewe
(Post 9712894)
You're just building this car so you can use all the cool toys! I was about to order a set of wheels to make an English wheel but the best company to buy from up in Indiana stopped making them.
One thing you can do to pick up more head room above the door window is to slice the inner roof support front to back and hammer it in toward the roof skin. I started doing it on FB's a long time ago and you can pick up about an inch. Don't be afraid to tilt your seat in at the top a little as well. Once you're buckled in you'll never notice. I'll see where the seat mounts and then I'll go from there, but that's some good advice. I may have to do that, being 6'. What wheels are you running? Cost? |
Diamond Racing with the "D" window, buy them raw and paint them myself, about $85 IIRC. Zero offset puts you right at the track limit in the rules, well within a 1/4" of it. In the front you need a spacer to clear the caliper so I made some 1/2 spacers and get 4" backspace for the fronts.
I just got all the stuff to powdercoat so the next stuff that crosses my path will be thrown in the oven. |
Update
Per the 2010 GCR
1. Suspension control arms are unrestricted, provided the quantity of these items remains as stock. |
Originally Posted by shm21284
(Post 9720965)
Per the 2010 GCR
1. Suspension control arms are unrestricted, provided the quantity of these items remains as stock. |
Originally Posted by NOPR
(Post 9723243)
dayumnnnn. What kind of improvement can you make over the stock aluminum ones? will lighter ones be possible? Or something with a better adjustability?
I can't add any more adjustability into the arm, as far as i can interperet. |
Just found your thread, looks like fun. I race an EP RX8, by my interpretation you can build control arms with adjustable links as long as your pivot/pick up points remain the same. This is for level 2 prep. Level 1 I think you can do whatever you want, but your car will be level 2.
Watch the weight on that thing, you don't want to finish up and have to rework anything to get it down. The RX8 has been a difficult car to get to weight (2450), the final 50 lbs are coming off 1 at a time. 2358 with alt synchro gear box, I am sure you can do it but pay attention so you don't have trouble. You will weigh more than you think with your gear, coolshirt, firebottle, it all adds up fast. As far as tranny goes, look at the miata box. Many 1st gen rx7 EP race cars around here use them and I have only seen one break in my first few years racing. The rest seem to use jerico 4spd dogbox setup but it kills the budget. |
Originally Posted by shm21284
(Post 9723427)
The fronts are fine, but the rears are heavy. I will be doing some fatigue analysis on aluminum ones; my boss at work gave me a 2 hour refresh course on this.
I can't add any more adjustability into the arm, as far as i can interperet. ohhhhhhhhhhhh the rears. gotcha. please continue with more updates on the double. |
Originally Posted by NOPR
(Post 9730648)
ohhhhhhhhhhhh the rears. gotcha. please continue with more updates on the double.
|
Originally Posted by ebb
(Post 9729032)
Just found your thread, looks like fun. I race an EP RX8, by my interpretation you can build control arms with adjustable links as long as your pivot/pick up points remain the same. This is for level 2 prep. Level 1 I think you can do whatever you want, but your car will be level 2.
Watch the weight on that thing, you don't want to finish up and have to rework anything to get it down. The RX8 has been a difficult car to get to weight (2450), the final 50 lbs are coming off 1 at a time. 2358 with alt synchro gear box, I am sure you can do it but pay attention so you don't have trouble. You will weigh more than you think with your gear, coolshirt, firebottle, it all adds up fast. As far as tranny goes, look at the miata box. Many 1st gen rx7 EP race cars around here use them and I have only seen one break in my first few years racing. The rest seem to use jerico 4spd dogbox setup but it kills the budget. I will look at designing some front arms as well, the added adjustability can be an advantage, but this will occur later in the build process. I already own JIC coilovers, so if I chose to sell those, I will redesign the arms (and possibly knuckles) to be able to use remote resevoir shocks, which are legal.
Originally Posted by farberio
(Post 9730685)
Wow...its amazing how fast you forget things when you are sevenless.
Originally Posted by NOPR
(Post 9730648)
ohhhhhhhhhhhh the rears. gotcha. please continue with more updates on the double.
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Originally Posted by shm21284
(Post 9730877)
I already own JIC coilovers, so if I chose to sell those I am going to call my friend about them
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looks good
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Originally Posted by farberio
(Post 9730685)
Wow...its amazing how fast you forget things when you are sevenless. :icon_tdow
technically I didn't forget, I remember exactly what the fronts look like!! and what they're made out of!! I could draw one from memory with my left hand and my eyes closed!! which is why i thought to myself: "self, what he gonna do to them? they already pretty tight....!!" The thought of messing with the rears never crossed my mind. It's not a piece people usually talk about/mess with. so, in conclusion. GFY. and please, continue with the updates. |
must be maxwell chiming in...
I had no idea an alum sunroof was in order, clearly grad school at U.D. is not keeping you busy enough. cheers |
clearly i was on vacation
nothings getting done now. 3 classes = HELL! |
Very Nice
Wanna finish my project? |
Originally Posted by nkeehn
(Post 9734779)
Very Nice
Wanna finish my project? |
Rear Control Arm
Here is just some preliminary CAD pictures. I sent the control arm to a local company for reverse engineering using a CMM. I took the file and built this in CAD. This gave me a way to visualize how I will "connect the dots" structurally.
http://i916.photobucket.com/albums/a...trolArmV11.jpg http://i916.photobucket.com/albums/a...trolArmV12.jpg http://i916.photobucket.com/albums/a...trolArmV13.jpg http://i916.photobucket.com/albums/a...trolArmV14.jpg http://i916.photobucket.com/albums/a...4/Mazda395.jpg http://i916.photobucket.com/albums/a...trolArmV15.jpg Thanks to NATEFRAME for that real picture, that's his nicely powder coated suspension |
Originally Posted by shm21284
(Post 9712566)
Bent bars are stronger than straight bars; s-bent bars aren't quite as strong as single bent bars. Those are going away in favor of single bent bars. Bent bars have the advantage of getting the bars away from the driver by putting them into the door panel allowing for more deflection before they touch the driver. Another advantage is a higher strength by shortening the length in which the tube is straight and perpendicular to a side impact load (in an impact, the middle of the door bar will experience mostly bending - which is the weakest form of resistance to loading on a tube), thereby stiffening the bar in a side impact scenario.
A bent tube will deform first, and by the time it starts loading the cage, it may have twisted around so much that it's tearing away from the cage. Certainly the tube is now part of the driver. I understand the problem with driver room, but it's still a bad idea. |
I am under the impression that the door bar is there for only one purpose, to protect the driver from a side impact. It seems that the door bar would provide zero protection in the advent of a roll over, however freak accidents have and will happan again.
Analyzing from the side impact point of view... Imagine the straight bar, it will essentally be put into a case of pure bending, which creates very high stress within the material, not to mention being bend directly into the driver, which could trap and driver depending on the amount of deflection, you want the jaws of life to be able to get you out as soon as possible. Take the trapezoidal door bar, its geometric design effectivly shortens the amount of straight bar in the middle( between the two angled portions ) which will inturn significantally reduce the stress due to bending. Alot more of that impact force can be absorbed in compression by the two angled bars, which if properly attached to the rest of the cage should protect the driver and channel the impact forces around him, instead of into or completly thru him. The simplest analogy I can think of is hanging or doing pull up's from a tree, notice how the long straight branchs bend the most, but the shorter angled ones dont. Wood is an extreme example in this case becasue its a very anisotropic material, but the general idea is still the same. SHM is correct about keeping the driver to steel bar distance as high as possible, just think about it. :scratch: |
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