Interest in JHB Cermet B housings? -New dealer-
 

Hey everyone! Just wondering how much interest there is in JHB's products?

http://www.jhbperformance.com/

I've recently become a dealer for them and I'm placing an order of Cermet B T2 housings.

The pricing for the housings with a useable core is $430/each which includes tax and shipping from Winnipeg.
If you send me your core, you will not get the same housing back. It will be exchanged for another already Cermet coated one. This cuts down on the turn-around time.

For your housing to be considered a useable core, it cant have any gouges or cracking. Flaking chrome and general wear can be fixed.

If you dont have a core and would like to buy a pair of housings out-right, I can only offer this for my first order : $500/each including tax and shipping to your door.

JHB will be raising the prices on Cermet coated housings in the new year, so now's the time to buy!

If you have any questions about pricing ect. please pm me.

Thanks
Joe

So what are the housings going to cost in the new year?

I'd like to do my P porting before it's coated.. whats the ACTUAL turn around for that..??

also , what is considered a gouge or crack.. if a housing is dead .. it's going to have a gouge from a broken apex.. or crack in the crome along the corner seal seat ?

Marc still isn't sure about the cost for the new year.

The turn around time for getting your own housings back really depends on how many orders he is working on, it could range from 1-2 months. A guy on the forum here "Now" just went through that, he wanted his exact housings back and it took some time!

I am sending JHB a few core housings with different levels of damage from my own collection to give me a better idea of what is useable and what isn't.
From what Marc has told me, small imprints of apex seal on the housing surface could be fixed, as well as the corner seal "groove" that tends to wear into the housing.

1-2 months.. automotive that's good, aricraft, that's a lost sale.. sigh.. back to boring new housing for me.

Thread okayed for general exposure and Interest on JHB's products. Any order Info or simular should be taken to the PM's.

Can they garantee unwarped housings and even housing surface?

I might be interested.

I have a few housings that could be resurfaced.

I'm still wondering if this stuff actually works.

The housings are garanteed not to be warped at all. I hear that some people were having some issues with the coating dropping off a bit on the edges, but I believe JHB has corrected all of the early issues with the uneven surfaces. This also may be why the price is going up in the new year.

A good guy to contact if your not sure about the housings working would be wpgrexx, he has built a few motors using JHB housings and from what I know, he hasn't had any problems.

Good job Joe. Any numbers for FD housings?

Hey Mike, I don't have any prices for FD housings yet. If there is enough interest in them, then I might.

T2 housings can be used to build pretty much any 13B with...weather it be N/A or Turbo.
I believe the only difference bettween the FC T2 housings and FD housings is the exhaust sleeve? (Please correct me if I'm wrong). But it doesn't take much to swap the sleeves around.

Good to hear you are a dealer for them now Joe. I jumped on board as soon as I learned about there products last year. I have built a number of motors with cermet housings and some with cermet housings and end plates. Stuff is top quality. I beleive some of the problems that were discussed have been addressed, as alot of it was related to "bad" cores. I think they have raised their standards a bit as to what they will take as a usable core.

I really beleive these coatings are the future for Mazda rotary engines. There is a limited number of new housings available and Mazda doesnt seem to be planning on making more. This is so far the only way I have seen to refresh these parts and make them usable again. Add to that they perform better too. As you may have noticed, I really beleive in these parts. I use them almost exclusively for builds now. Everyone makes full 120psi.

Best of luck Joe, I think you will be happy with the results, and glad you got on board early.

First off I am not trying to discredit this process one bit. Just some question. Maybe you can answer them.


In your opionion do you believe this "last 10 times longer then stock housings" statement holds some truth. Given that usually its not the housings that fail but the apex seals. Either by detonation or plan wear. How do they manage getting an engine housing to last 10 times longer? Their seals?

So if I bring my housings to a machine shop and get them measured for warpage and the surface area for straightness (Is that a word?) and apex seal to housing clearance and it fails they will refund me for the housings, shipping, machine shop fee's etc etc?

Say my rotating asemble has been lightened and balanced for high rpm usage. Will this coating still work for me? (Again my question of apex to rotor housing clearance.)

Also if you blow your motor up apparently the second time around is cheaper? I called them but all they said yes it is cheaper the second time around but did not offer any pricing when prompt.

Sorry if I sound negative or doubtfull its just nobody has yet to open a motor to see how well these work. Any motor can last a year or two but apparently JHB has a race FC that has been running for 6 years? This from their first test housings.

(Have you pulled one apart yet? There is only two here locally but one has still very low km and the other has not run yet.)

thanks,
Ian

I've talked to rotaryrocket and will probable be purchasing some housings and trying this out for myself :)

I especially like his quoted price of $500 taxes in without me even having to supply housings. Sounds like a deal. Thanks rotoryrocket. "And get me some stickers" :) LOL

for specific questions like how do you know it lasts 10x longer I would have to direct you to talk to JHB themselves.

I will share my experiences with you guys on teardowns with cermet.

1. s5 13bt, was built with cermet plates and new chrome housings. Somehow after having around 5000kms on engine, the timing went 180 degrees out. I dont know how as it is not my car just a customer(I didnt build the motor the first time either). After teardown I found 5 out of 6 apex seals broken. One of the chrome housings was destroyed, the other was good enough to get cleaned up on a CNC and reused. The irons were perfect, didnt even need relapping before reassembly. I rebuilt the motor with all new Mazda apex seals and it is now making full 120psi compression.

2. I have seen a motor that JHB built as a test motor for a s5 vert with a TII swap. ECU wiring apparently was bad(jspec) and the injectors were mixed up, giving both primaries to the rear rotor. Hydro lock occured and blew the dowel pin out of the block, broke the casting right apart. The surface of the plate is good enough to stick in a motor without touching if it still had a dowel hole.


3. Bought a set of JHB Cermet housings that were one of the original prototype sets. They are now running strong in s4 with a aux bridgeport making great power. if I told you guys some of the things JHB did to these housings when they were prototypes you would cringe. Poured aluminum oxide powder down the oil filler. Housings looked great before reusing.

Thats what I have toredown. Obviously we will know more as time goes by. But from what I have seen first hand convinces me of their quality. There are some SAE papers available on the net that go into some good detail about MAzda's research with coatings and a little comparison between some coatings on housings. A very good read.

As for the clearances. I really dont want to comment on other peoples issues they have had as I have nothing to do with it. I am just a dealer for JHB not an employee or affiliate other than dealer of their parts. But what I can say is that they can custom clearance the hosuings for different applications. For example, I recently purchased a set of old skool 13b housings from JHb with cermet B coating. I explained my plans for the engine( J bridge port with lots of oil mods hoping to rev to around 10krpm) JHB set up clearances to better allow revs to that high. Once my REPU is up and running I will have some results for you guys about the extra clearancing performed.

Excellent explanation wpgrexx, your Repu sounds like its going to be quite the beast :D

Ian, stickers are in the works ;)

Id rather buy new housings for the price they want for cerment b coating

Really? My local Mazda dealer quoted me $900 Cdn for each new S5 T2 housing........

~$800 for a TII and $495 for a renesis.. althought using a TII end plate will make the rings and clearences a bit different.. it's hardly a price I'm going to refuse.. esp., if your doing p ports AND the price is going up..

Too many little details need to be worked out with this coating system, in particular the 'coating to Apex seal' wear issue. No one seems to be able to agree on which seal wear's faster, which one wear's the surface faster and which one's won't even seat properly.. My personal issue with the process is they are not using a Det. gun for the application..

Allot of Aircraft builders/engineers are suspect of the actual longevity of the process.. For my own part, most of my question will involve time.. allot of it. To see where and how the process evolves. I just wich these JHB guys would actually answer these questions and others.

For reference..

http://www.advanced-coating.com/en/t...echniques.html

What I'm really looking for is some healthy capitalist competition from someone else, promotes advances in product and competitive pricing.

New housings are $650 at the dealer. Or last I checked. These prices seems to fluctuate daily.

So new r8 housings are that $500. Dam. Why can't they be cheaper.:(

I do think the JHB process is expensive. It would be great if they could offer it significantly cheaper then new. Since its a respray not casting the whole thing.

if I KNEW that the process was going to get me XXXXXX km's with YXY apex seals then I wouldn't have too many gripes, but it's still way too new to be upping an already high price.

I'm interested.
What is their ISO level they are audited to? Do housings come with a certificate of conformance ensuring tolerances are per Mazda spec of new housings for all overal dimensions and for consistentency of surface finish for the entire surface of the rotor's operating surface?

Why would you care about their ISO level? Do Mazda housings come with a "certificate of conformance"?

waaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy tooooooooooooo expensive. questions are many about this process. how thick is the coating? how it it going to effect rotor clearance? what apex seals are best to use? and many more. the price should be $175. i wonder how much of that ceramic will come off and fly into the turbo damaging the blades or jamming an apex seal.

People are complaining about the "high cost" of this process, but some overlook the fact that it's a performance coating that reduces friction by retaining oil particles on the housings surface, which would also help the engine run cooler.
I personally dont have hard evidence that proves the engine will run cooler, but by reducing friction it would make sense...right?
Your not just buying a replacment Mazda housing, your buying something better.

Mazda warranties their housings for 1 year and will not hounour a warranty for performance applications (which excludes pretty much everyone here lol ). JHB will warranty all their housings for 1 year regardless of the application. The warranty covers the coating chipping or flaking off. If you blow an apex seal due to not being tuned properly or running 40psi of boost on stock injectors, then I'm pretty sure that cant be covered under their warranty. (you get the idea right?)

Marc shared some interesting info with me about the rotor to housing clearance for OEM Mazda housings. He told me that Mazda housings are not all the same, they all have different clearances. Mazda's specs range anywhere from 0.015"-0.029" clearance, each housing is different. Like wpgrexx mentioned before about custom clearancing, they can machine your housing out to 0.032" for very high RPM applications to compansate for e-shaft flex. But normally they machine all the housings out to a certain spec, unlike Mazda's housings that can have a difference of 0.010" !!!

all automotive companies are ISO 9001/2 and all tire1-3 suppliers need to be ISO 9001-3 ( depnding on what they do/supply ). In this case it would apply to the Q/A and conformance to the OEM specs.

if thier is that much difference in housing specs.. then which one is JHB using as it's base spec?

Anyway, I would have NO prolbem with the pricing IF some of the questons were answerable.. becuse at the momnet I don't think they have anywhere near enought practicaly feed back on the product to say that thier low end 'B' product is worth what a new housing is worth. It's all good and fine to have claims but with nothing to back it up with .. it's hardly fair to the potential customer to be paying top dollar for an as yet unproven product.

I would like to see a few housings that have have been used for a year, go and get checked for wear and tear tolerances, with supplied data like what apex seals and specs on setup..