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I don't see it that way at all. Like Rob said, he personally likes to push the envelope on power. Some people prefer a more conservative build and this 4 rotor in theory should be more reliable than a 3 rotor making the same power. That's what I got out of it anyway.
^^^X2
Rob made videos of him maxing out turbos and pushing his 3 rotor to get close to that 1000hp mark. Then he has a video saying he finally killed the 3 rotor, he was pushing it to the brink on purpose and already had everything in line to rebuild it because the motor was rebuilt less than 24 hours later...
You can read through david's thread and tell its not about maximum power for him, its about being able to drive and enjoy a 4 rotor on the street unlike anything anyone has done.
Such an amazing build! It is great to see all your hard work result in some recognition even though I believe this build was for yourself and it really did not matter if anyone else gave a **** about it. Would love to see it in person. Definitely the unicorn build I always hope to see anytime I go to a local car show/event. Could careless about the factory Ferrari/Lambo/Mclaren. Great cars for sure but just have no interest in the out of the box paid for super car. For me it is all about what someone can do with his own imagination and what that vision turns into. This is always a journey with ups and downs.
For me the most impressive thing about your build is your determination, perseverance and positive attitude no matter the ups and downs. It is a breath of fresh air honestly.
Absolutely want to see a more in-depth look into your mechanical fuel pump set-up! Looks amazing. Especially the cable drive. I am near the limits of dual 044 surge tank and I am not going to add a 3rd.
I've been MIA for a little while from the forums. Very held down with my day job and took a good break over winter.
A few quick updates:
1. pulled injectors had them cleaned, sitting with e85 caused no issue in flow
2. car hasn't been driven since SEMA, but I've decided to tear down the suspension, get very serious and prep the car for potentially running it at Global Time Attack, Road Atlanta May 10th at Formula Drift. I'm working with Race Divison Pro Driver, Bryan Leonard. He will be driving the car, and were going over the setup
3. upgraded the Clutch Master Cylinder for more pressure and a little more disengagement room, with a Wilwood Master 3/4" from Chase Bays and utilizing this magnificant adapter plate designed by Andrew Zeiger. Zprecision.com you can purchase for good price, perfect fit. The wheels now completely stop spinning with pedal down, car on jacks. I was having issues when clutch gets hot from stop and go, trying to grab at high rpm rev on its own. Probably from fluid getting hot and less hydraulic pressure/aerating. This added a few mm's throw to the throw-out without seeming to damage the slave from overextension. Stock is a 5/8, this is a 3/4. Replaced the line with a new PTFE line as well
4. On the fence about running Brembo GT brakes, may do 4 piston F40/50 syle GT1 brakes up front. Ordered backing plates and will be doing my own ducting to the rotors
5. In process of doing coil-overs. Just weighed the car. New 510's from Fortune Auto, 14k/12k. Then we will sort out cross weight and corner balancing
6. Magazine is out now
7. Ready to set up wheel speed traction control using front ABS
8. Flying tuner back out in a few weeks to double check the tune and give MAP sensor tuning a shot, instead of current TPS load. TPS is working great with map compensation but it scares me in event that TPS were to fail the engine would be unhappy.
9. Yokohama Advan A005 full slicks
10. Deleting brake booster going to a protoype custom manual cylinder with two reseviours made for me by Chase Bays, so we can run fluid seperately to front and rear. Reduces risk of overheating all the brakes, so its only front or rear. Also less risky.
11. Moved to 26.8" rear tire so we can hit 175mph in 4th gear at 9k on the back straight at road atlanta, goal is to keep it in 3rd and 4th most of the track so its like driving a sequential, and use RPM to modulate power so driver and stay on throttle as much as possible and left foot brake to give most slip angle
12. replaced rear toe links, front sway bar end links and tie rod ends, and about to install rear trailing arms
13. adding banzai differential brace
she's getting close to real serious. Kind of gives me mild panic attack thinking about giving it a ******* full send at the track. After dedicating my entire life to this for the past 5 years, thousands of hours, only to potentially send it into a wall or catch on fire or blow the engine. But we wont push it too far. Just would like to see how it does, not 10/10ths. Lets see how she performs. What's it worth if it just sits and never stretches it legs. Everyone wants to know. I want to know. And the glorious sound needs to echo through the air. No sound ordinance at road atlanta, lets blast some 4 rotor tunes.
This is for all the skeptics that said a 4 rotor in stock position would ruin the weight distribution. A local comes to mind who threw me under the bus for not moving the engine back lol. I love a little petty gotcha ever now and again, yall know me We solved it by optimally placing the weight on the rear with the rear wing, inter-cooler hatch system, and etc. perfectly 50/50. 2900lbs, still within the weight of a touring model rx7. Now we just need to install the new suspension and corner balance it to get rid of the cross wedge.
Thinking about destroying the outer turn signals, and making ducts through them, like this. Waiting on the custom backing plates to be made.
Forgot to add up top;
im in the process of this god aweful job right now
Replacing wheel studs. FML this is the worst job all along.
Had to destroy the axles to get them out of the rear, and the hubs. Tried 20 ton press, map gas, hammers of sorts, hammers of thor himself. Nothing worked besides smashing it so hard that they mushroomed. So replacing with another set of axles, new hubs, new bearings and new ARP studs front and rear, with new hubs up front as well. Can't take any chances. I will be using ridiculous amounts of anti-seize on splines going forward. Learn from my mistake.
Order of operations
1. finish this rear end bearing/stud/hub/axle nightmare
2. setup new suspension/corner balance
3. brake booster delete and new PTFE lines up front direct to calipers
4. order brakes, install fronts
5. brake ducts
6. alignment
7. tuning/testing
8. shake down on local track
9. full send
I have driven many laps at Road Atlanta, great and challenging track. VERY brutal on cars. If there is an issue with brakes or cooling it will show up there, and with that being said I would be very cautious about your brake booster delete. The added amount of driver force needed for booster deletes from chase bays can ultimately be too much for a driver on a road course.
the driver actually requests the manual cylinder, he says that while the required input is greater, he can feel a better resolution/consistency in a manual setup and chooses his pad aggressiveness to determine input/lock up point vs input
This is for all the skeptics that said a 4 rotor in stock position would ruin the weight distribution
It ruins weight distribution not in a static front weight versus rear weight sense (as that can and has been dealt with by moving components to the rear of the car).
It ruins weight distribution in the dynamic sense (how weight distribution affects vehicle movement) by moving weight toward the extreme ends of the car, so increasing the polar moment of inertia.
Now, does it matter?
If the driver ends up liking it and puts down a lap time they are happy with it does not matter.
I think the car would do better and have much less development needed to do 1/2 mile events and such.
Will be fun no matter what you do with it though. Can't wait for some video!
It ruins weight distribution not in a static front weight versus rear weight sense (as that can and has been dealt with by moving components to the rear of the car).
It ruins weight distribution in the dynamic sense (how weight distribution affects vehicle movement) by moving weight toward the extreme ends of the car, so increasing the polar moment of inertia.
Now, does it matter?
If the driver ends up liking it and puts down a lap time they are happy with it does not matter.
I think the car would do better and have much less development needed to do 1/2 mile events and such.
Will be fun no matter what you do with it though. Can't wait for some video!
that does make sense thanks for the explanation!
may end up giving the half mile a run later on too!
whatever it runs we will certainly be happy with! Goal is to just get this thing around the track, have fun, get some videos, and have proven/learned how to make this powerplant come to life. I think this type of power plant and size is better utilized in a different style configuration/another chassis, hopefully that goal will be obtainable down the road Will definitely update with videos!
I think this type of power plant and size is better utilized in a different style configuration/another chassis, hopefully that goal will be obtainable down the road
Oh ****!
He accomplished all that and he still has dreams of future builds.
Oh ****!
He accomplished all that and he still has dreams of future builds.
Oh yeah. If you've met David, you'll know this is just the start. We're dealing with a living legend here... Not my place to say anything, but we need to talk twin turbo soon, because there won't be a single on the market that can handle your dreams.
I've been MIA for a little while from the forums. Very held down with my day job and took a good break over winter.
A few quick updates:
1. pulled injectors had them cleaned, sitting with e85 caused no issue in flow
2. car hasn't been driven since SEMA, but I've decided to tear down the suspension, get very serious and prep the car for potentially running it at Global Time Attack, Road Atlanta May 10th at Formula Drift. I'm working with Race Divison Pro Driver, Bryan Leonard. He will be driving the car, and were going over the setup
3. upgraded the Clutch Master Cylinder for more pressure and a little more disengagement room, with a Wilwood Master 3/4" from Chase Bays and utilizing this magnificant adapter plate designed by Andrew Zeiger. Zprecision.com you can purchase for good price, perfect fit. The wheels now completely stop spinning with pedal down, car on jacks. I was having issues when clutch gets hot from stop and go, trying to grab at high rpm rev on its own. Probably from fluid getting hot and less hydraulic pressure/aerating. This added a few mm's throw to the throw-out without seeming to damage the slave from overextension. Stock is a 5/8, this is a 3/4. Replaced the line with a new PTFE line as well
4. On the fence about running Brembo GT brakes, may do 4 piston F40/50 syle GT1 brakes up front. Ordered backing plates and will be doing my own ducting to the rotors
5. In process of doing coil-overs. Just weighed the car. New 510's from Fortune Auto, 14k/12k. Then we will sort out cross weight and corner balancing
6. Magazine is out now
7. Ready to set up wheel speed traction control using front ABS
8. Flying tuner back out in a few weeks to double check the tune and give MAP sensor tuning a shot, instead of current TPS load. TPS is working great with map compensation but it scares me in event that TPS were to fail the engine would be unhappy.
9. Yokohama Advan A005 full slicks
10. Deleting brake booster going to a protoype custom manual cylinder with two reseviours made for me by Chase Bays, so we can run fluid seperately to front and rear. Reduces risk of overheating all the brakes, so its only front or rear. Also less risky.
11. Moved to 26.8" rear tire so we can hit 175mph in 4th gear at 9k on the back straight at road atlanta, goal is to keep it in 3rd and 4th most of the track so its like driving a sequential, and use RPM to modulate power so driver and stay on throttle as much as possible and left foot brake to give most slip angle
12. replaced rear toe links, front sway bar end links and tie rod ends, and about to install rear trailing arms
13. adding banzai differential brace
she's getting close to real serious. Kind of gives me mild panic attack thinking about giving it a ******* full send at the track. After dedicating my entire life to this for the past 5 years, thousands of hours, only to potentially send it into a wall or catch on fire or blow the engine. But we wont push it too far. Just would like to see how it does, not 10/10ths. Lets see how she performs. What's it worth if it just sits and never stretches it legs. Everyone wants to know. I want to know. And the glorious sound needs to echo through the air. No sound ordinance at road atlanta, lets blast some 4 rotor tunes.
.... I think this type of power plant and size is better utilized in a different style configuration/another chassis, hopefully that goal will be obtainable down the road Will definitely update with videos!
I don't think the TPS sensor for fuel map load is necessarily more of a risk than using the MAP sensor only. MAP sensors fail too, so I wouldn't worry about it unless the TPS you're using has a reputation for being unreliable. The calibration in my (mostly stock) FD has been using TPS as the fuel load input since about 2007 without problems. The stock TPS in my car has about 90k miles on it now.
I would spend time making sure the ECU failsafes like lean-out protection and over-temperature protection are configured, and the map is tuned in a way that won't false-trigger the protections and tempt you to disable them. Learning how to view datalogs from the ECU or the dash might be a good idea. Even if you're not planning to make tuning changes it might be good to get familiar with how the car is running. I could send some logs from my car but using a different ECU means the log viewing software would feel a bit different.
I've heard event or track day insurance is a thing, you might be able to pay for something like an agreed value policy in case the car gets damaged. I'm cheap and risk-averse, I usually stick to autocross where the worst that is likely to happen are some scuff marks that need to be buffed out after clipping cones.
The race track excursion is nice to hear. I think this car meshes well for time attack events. I am sure it will survive couple of hot laps at a time vs extra wear and tear of full 30+ minute sessions.
While I understand your driver is used to manual brakes on 3000lbs race cars, just know that it takes some development and trial and error to get to the point of having complete confidence in the brakes. Hopefully, he has the experience to cut through a lot of that as there are a lot of variables when you start talking about dual masters, adjustable pedals, bias bars, and your talking about a bigger brake package too. Its def not going to be a bolt on and go type deal here.
RdATL will be the best showcase of power, brakes and aero. Barber is the perfect track for developing/validating your brake and aero set up before the time attack event.
Check out the Nine lives racing guys out of GA, they have been cranking out all kinds of aero stuff that just plain works.
Its probably too soon but the lovefab/enviate chassis were recently made available for purchase, could be an option if the mid engine guesses were correct.
Just out of interest have you had to modify the chassis where the headlights are so you can turn the front wheels on lock with outcatching the frame work?
I don't believe David explicitly stated why he did the chassis front-end work, but looking at the work it sure made working on the car easier, mounting the many heat exchangers easier, added chassis rigidity as well as providing more room for getting steering lock with lower offset, wider or taller wheels/tires.
11-16-18, 11:04 AM
We solved it by optimally placing the weight on the rear with the rear wing, inter-cooler hatch system, and etc. perfectly 50/50. 2900lbs, still within the weight of a touring model rx7. Now we just need to install the new suspension and corner balance it to get rid of the cross wedge.
Will definitely update with videos!
