4 Rotor Water Injection, Trigger water injection VIA Relay from ECU Haltech Output?
06-02-16, 08:40 PM
#26
It's just not necessary for detonation resistance. So you end up with something that's overly complicated and introduce more potential failure points. The simplest method to achieve your goal is best. With E85 you'll be able to max out your combination and not worry about detonation.
its the sxe 8374.. my second choice.
Last edited by lastphaseofthis; 06-02-16 at 08:43 PM.
06-03-16, 07:15 PM
#30
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Mechanical Pre-Turbo Water Injection - Wannaspeed
11-13-17, 12:12 PM
#31
Wanted to update this,
Not using the progressive, but instead just a simple output from ECU to trigger a simple relay in the trunk, which powers the pump. Check-valve at the injector. Has been working great so far. Just programming the output on the ECU to stage at 8psi boost, giving it a little head start before we hit our 13psi target. The amount of water/meth ratio is only 10% of overall fuel volume, so it only brings the AFR down around 0.2pts overall at the moment. Tuning this out would require subtracting some fuel from the VE table BUTTT, we've got a solution for this. The new Haltech Elite update, allows you to run a fuel correction table, which can be triggered by up to 3x conditions. This weekend I'm installing a fuel pressure gauge on the water/meth line which will be used to detect the water methanol flow. In theory, we should be able to trigger the relay via the output, which will then spray the methanol, which will then send data into the ecu via the fuel pressure sensor. The fuel correction table can then be activated when fuel pressure regulator sees over "xxx psi" while over 8psi boost. Then the correction table can temporarily subtract fuel from the VE table. If the fuel pressure regulator were to read below the threshold condition, then the table would be deactivated, thereby enriching the fuel mixture to the tune before methanol injection; a viable fail-safe
Not using the progressive, but instead just a simple output from ECU to trigger a simple relay in the trunk, which powers the pump. Check-valve at the injector. Has been working great so far. Just programming the output on the ECU to stage at 8psi boost, giving it a little head start before we hit our 13psi target. The amount of water/meth ratio is only 10% of overall fuel volume, so it only brings the AFR down around 0.2pts overall at the moment. Tuning this out would require subtracting some fuel from the VE table BUTTT, we've got a solution for this. The new Haltech Elite update, allows you to run a fuel correction table, which can be triggered by up to 3x conditions. This weekend I'm installing a fuel pressure gauge on the water/meth line which will be used to detect the water methanol flow. In theory, we should be able to trigger the relay via the output, which will then spray the methanol, which will then send data into the ecu via the fuel pressure sensor. The fuel correction table can then be activated when fuel pressure regulator sees over "xxx psi" while over 8psi boost. Then the correction table can temporarily subtract fuel from the VE table. If the fuel pressure regulator were to read below the threshold condition, then the table would be deactivated, thereby enriching the fuel mixture to the tune before methanol injection; a viable fail-safe
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RGHTBrainDesign (11-22-17)
11-15-17, 12:41 AM
#32
Wanted to update this,
Not using the progressive, but instead just a simple output from ECU to trigger a simple relay in the trunk, which powers the pump. Check-valve at the injector. Has been working great so far. Just programming the output on the ECU to stage at 8psi boost, giving it a little head start before we hit our 13psi target. The amount of water/meth ratio is only 10% of overall fuel volume, so it only brings the AFR down around 0.2pts overall at the moment. Tuning this out would require subtracting some fuel from the VE table BUTTT, we've got a solution for this. The new Haltech Elite update, allows you to run a fuel correction table, which can be triggered by up to 3x conditions. This weekend I'm installing a fuel pressure gauge on the water/meth line which will be used to detect the water methanol flow. In theory, we should be able to trigger the relay via the output, which will then spray the methanol, which will then send data into the ecu via the fuel pressure sensor. The fuel correction table can then be activated when fuel pressure regulator sees over "xxx psi" while over 8psi boost. Then the correction table can temporarily subtract fuel from the VE table. If the fuel pressure regulator were to read below the threshold condition, then the table would be deactivated, thereby enriching the fuel mixture to the tune before methanol injection; a viable fail-safe
Not using the progressive, but instead just a simple output from ECU to trigger a simple relay in the trunk, which powers the pump. Check-valve at the injector. Has been working great so far. Just programming the output on the ECU to stage at 8psi boost, giving it a little head start before we hit our 13psi target. The amount of water/meth ratio is only 10% of overall fuel volume, so it only brings the AFR down around 0.2pts overall at the moment. Tuning this out would require subtracting some fuel from the VE table BUTTT, we've got a solution for this. The new Haltech Elite update, allows you to run a fuel correction table, which can be triggered by up to 3x conditions. This weekend I'm installing a fuel pressure gauge on the water/meth line which will be used to detect the water methanol flow. In theory, we should be able to trigger the relay via the output, which will then spray the methanol, which will then send data into the ecu via the fuel pressure sensor. The fuel correction table can then be activated when fuel pressure regulator sees over "xxx psi" while over 8psi boost. Then the correction table can temporarily subtract fuel from the VE table. If the fuel pressure regulator were to read below the threshold condition, then the table would be deactivated, thereby enriching the fuel mixture to the tune before methanol injection; a viable fail-safe
11-16-17, 06:44 PM
#33
This weekend I'm installing a fuel pressure gauge on the water/meth line which will be used to detect the water methanol flow. In theory, we should be able to trigger the relay via the output, which will then spray the methanol, which will then send data into the ecu via the fuel pressure sensor. The fuel correction table can then be activated when fuel pressure regulator sees over "xxx psi" while over 8psi boost. Then the correction table can temporarily subtract fuel from the VE table. If the fuel pressure regulator were to read below the threshold condition, then the table would be deactivated, thereby enriching the fuel mixture to the tune before methanol injection; a viable fail-safe
11-22-17, 04:43 AM
#36
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
Wanted to update this,
Not using the progressive, but instead just a simple output from ECU to trigger a simple relay in the trunk, which powers the pump. Check-valve at the injector. Has been working great so far. Just programming the output on the ECU to stage at 8psi boost, giving it a little head start before we hit our 13psi target. The amount of water/meth ratio is only 10% of overall fuel volume, so it only brings the AFR down around 0.2pts overall at the moment. Tuning this out would require subtracting some fuel from the VE table BUTTT, we've got a solution for this. The new Haltech Elite update, allows you to run a fuel correction table, which can be triggered by up to 3x conditions. This weekend I'm installing a fuel pressure gauge on the water/meth line which will be used to detect the water methanol flow. In theory, we should be able to trigger the relay via the output, which will then spray the methanol, which will then send data into the ecu via the fuel pressure sensor. The fuel correction table can then be activated when fuel pressure regulator sees over "xxx psi" while over 8psi boost. Then the correction table can temporarily subtract fuel from the VE table. If the fuel pressure regulator were to read below the threshold condition, then the table would be deactivated, thereby enriching the fuel mixture to the tune before methanol injection; a viable fail-safe
Not using the progressive, but instead just a simple output from ECU to trigger a simple relay in the trunk, which powers the pump. Check-valve at the injector. Has been working great so far. Just programming the output on the ECU to stage at 8psi boost, giving it a little head start before we hit our 13psi target. The amount of water/meth ratio is only 10% of overall fuel volume, so it only brings the AFR down around 0.2pts overall at the moment. Tuning this out would require subtracting some fuel from the VE table BUTTT, we've got a solution for this. The new Haltech Elite update, allows you to run a fuel correction table, which can be triggered by up to 3x conditions. This weekend I'm installing a fuel pressure gauge on the water/meth line which will be used to detect the water methanol flow. In theory, we should be able to trigger the relay via the output, which will then spray the methanol, which will then send data into the ecu via the fuel pressure sensor. The fuel correction table can then be activated when fuel pressure regulator sees over "xxx psi" while over 8psi boost. Then the correction table can temporarily subtract fuel from the VE table. If the fuel pressure regulator were to read below the threshold condition, then the table would be deactivated, thereby enriching the fuel mixture to the tune before methanol injection; a viable fail-safe
Main Setup > Functions > Fuel Pump > Aux Fuel Pump 1
Setup
Run a Hella 20A Solid State Relay on the Water Injection Pump
ECU Calibration
Mode: Digital - Duty Cycle
Trigger Type - Estimated Flow Rate
Estimated Fuel Flow - ~3500-4000cc/min or wherever you think a good threshold for 8psi is for your particular setup. Range is UP TO 5000cc/min (maximum).
Time Hysteresis - 1000ms
ECU Table
On the main table, you have your left column now occupied by "Fuel Pump Duty Cycle > Aux Fuel Pump 1 Table"
You gain 2x Axis here with 8 fields each, so an 8x8 2D table.
Setup can be MAP vs. Water Injection Pressure or anything to your liking. (One trick would be using "Power Steering Pressure" here and 8 data points from the sensor on the water injection system.)
Extra Credit
Power Steering Pressure Sensor > Display = Warning Setup
Power Steering Pressure Sensor > Diagnostics > Raw Min/Raw Max (Voltage) = DTC Severity (Check Engine Light and Protection Modes)
-Ryan @ RGHTBrainDesign
11-23-17, 06:16 PM
#37
Another way of accomplishing this task WITH gaining progressive tuning:
Main Setup
Extra Credit
Power Steering Pressure Sensor > Display = Warning Setup
Power Steering Pressure Sensor > Diagnostics > Raw Min/Raw Max (Voltage) = DTC Severity (Check Engine Light and Protection Modes)
-Ryan @ RGHTBrainDesign
Main Setup
Extra Credit
Power Steering Pressure Sensor > Display = Warning Setup
Power Steering Pressure Sensor > Diagnostics > Raw Min/Raw Max (Voltage) = DTC Severity (Check Engine Light and Protection Modes)
-Ryan @ RGHTBrainDesign
Have you done solid state control of the pump? It's very slow to react. If you want good 3D control, use one of Holley's injector solenoids. Holley bought FJO and it's their old stuff. Works like a fuel injector. Allows precise metering of the injectant. Much more precise and faster reacting than trying to control volume with pump speed.
11-26-17, 11:29 PM
#38
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
No need to use a channel without the proper name. Define the channel on a generic input and then name it whatever you'd like.
Have you done solid state control of the pump? It's very slow to react. If you want good 3D control, use one of Holley's injector solenoids. Holley bought FJO and it's their old stuff. Works like a fuel injector. Allows precise metering of the injectant. Much more precise and faster reacting than trying to control volume with pump speed.
Have you done solid state control of the pump? It's very slow to react. If you want good 3D control, use one of Holley's injector solenoids. Holley bought FJO and it's their old stuff. Works like a fuel injector. Allows precise metering of the injectant. Much more precise and faster reacting than trying to control volume with pump speed.
Referencing the FJO part, the alternative that should be well aware to anyone on this forum is the 1300cc/min Aquamist Fast Acting Valve for $100. I prefer to run ZERO Holley parts on my car for a multitude of reasons. The price point on this is also more accessible.
11-29-17, 10:45 AM
#41
I agree, I never liked the idea of slowing the pump down / dropping pressure to control flow. The misting/atomizing surely has to suffer. If I step up to higher methanol percentage of overall fuel volume, will definitely be utilizing FJO/Holly solenoid. Seems to be doing fine right now just letting her eat 1200cc of 50/50, isn't enough to really change the tune to drastically
01-26-19, 04:36 AM
#43
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
01-26-19, 05:22 AM
#44
Thanks for your input.
I picked up one of his kits last week and was thinking of using it for clean oil but, then I came across this article and the idea came to me.
So, I don't know much about controlling the OMP yet.
Do you think the OMP will have enough pressure to over come boost?
I picked up one of his kits last week and was thinking of using it for clean oil but, then I came across this article and the idea came to me.
So, I don't know much about controlling the OMP yet.
Do you think the OMP will have enough pressure to over come boost?
01-28-19, 02:52 AM
#45
Realistically you can run a Richard Sohn OMP Adapter and a reservoir of Water/Meth to pump into those factory OMP parts. Honestly, I'm surprised I've heard of no one doing this over the last 5+yrs.
The FSM manual test for oil injection pump output was something like 2cc in 6 minutes at 2,000rpm on the old carby rotaries if I remember correctly and that amount has gone down and down with tighter emissions standards.
You are going to have to be injecting pure T.E.L. for that to have any affect on octane rating of fuel.
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Narfle (01-29-19)
05-09-19, 01:38 PM
#46
What I mean is,
Running your normal w/m injection system but inject the w/m where the oil injectors were threaded into the block.
I wasn't really thinking about using the OMP.
Running your normal w/m injection system but inject the w/m where the oil injectors were threaded into the block.
I wasn't really thinking about using the OMP.
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