100% Methanol instead of 50/50?
100% Methanol instead of 50/50?
12-02-17, 09:47 AM
#2
Since it's flammable, i wouldn't trust the push on fittings that come with the kit. Not sure about the pump (but i vaguely recall reading it can handle it). Howard Coleman has written extensively on running 100% meth.
But at roughly $10/gal, why would you want to (unless you are not using it that much). On a road course, I go through a gal/session. 50/50 is fine by me.
But at roughly $10/gal, why would you want to (unless you are not using it that much). On a road course, I go through a gal/session. 50/50 is fine by me.
12-16-17, 08:33 AM
#3
Since it's flammable, i wouldn't trust the push on fittings that come with the kit. Not sure about the pump (but i vaguely recall reading it can handle it). Howard Coleman has written extensively on running 100% meth.
But at roughly $10/gal, why would you want to (unless you are not using it that much). On a road course, I go through a gal/session. 50/50 is fine by me.
But at roughly $10/gal, why would you want to (unless you are not using it that much). On a road course, I go through a gal/session. 50/50 is fine by me.
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Howard Coleman (12-16-17)
12-16-17, 10:01 AM
#4
Racing Rotary Since 1983
iTrader: (6)
my view is any AI is miles better than no AI. of course that's not the question in this thread but i always like to get it in
i am not surprised by jsnow82's experience. i do believe that we all have misfires, the only question is the degree. if you are dynoing set the plot to zero smoothing and start looking around peak torque for tiny power jiggles which are misfires. you will not generally feel them.
while there can be numerous causes, such as too wide a plug gap (.023 works for most), the water element can (not always) be one cause. 100% methanol is one of the very best cures.
given it is a fuel your AI system should be significantly upgraded. no plastic lines, no push on connectors. i recommend, and have run since 2003, the Alkycontrol system. it is as good as Methanol is as an injectant. Julio Don, proprietor, Electrical Engineer, racer par excellence, is your guy. check out the site, give him a call, and he will deliver exactly what you need. the system is very adjustable and dependable.
if you are running around 350/425 an M10 (630 cc per minute) will work well. around 600 or less an M15.
at that input you will not generally blow your motor if something fails. i buy methanol around Wisconsin at approx $2.25 per gallon and you don't go thru a ton of it.
i am not surprised by jsnow82's experience. i do believe that we all have misfires, the only question is the degree. if you are dynoing set the plot to zero smoothing and start looking around peak torque for tiny power jiggles which are misfires. you will not generally feel them.
while there can be numerous causes, such as too wide a plug gap (.023 works for most), the water element can (not always) be one cause. 100% methanol is one of the very best cures.
given it is a fuel your AI system should be significantly upgraded. no plastic lines, no push on connectors. i recommend, and have run since 2003, the Alkycontrol system. it is as good as Methanol is as an injectant. Julio Don, proprietor, Electrical Engineer, racer par excellence, is your guy. check out the site, give him a call, and he will deliver exactly what you need. the system is very adjustable and dependable.
if you are running around 350/425 an M10 (630 cc per minute) will work well. around 600 or less an M15.
at that input you will not generally blow your motor if something fails. i buy methanol around Wisconsin at approx $2.25 per gallon and you don't go thru a ton of it.
Last edited by Howard Coleman; 12-16-17 at 02:04 PM.
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Modzilla (01-07-18)
12-17-17, 10:43 AM
#5
Hi Howard. Do you have any pics of your system and how your install looks? I have the AEM kit and am wondering is a upgrade to the Alkycontrol kit may be in my future.
my view is any AI is miles better than no AI. of course that's not the question in this thread but i always like to get it in
i am not surprised by jsnow82's experience. i do believe that we all have misfires, the only question is the degree. if you are dynoing set the plot to zero smoothing and start looking around peak torque for tiny power jiggles which are misfires. you will not generally feel them.
while there can be numerous causes, such as too wide a plug gap (.023 works for most), the water element can (not always) be one cause. 100% methanol is one of the very best cures.
given it is a fuel your AI system should be significantly upgraded. no plastic lines, no push on connectors. i recommend, and have run since 2003, the Alkycontrol system. it is as good as Methanol is as an injectant. Julio Don, proprietor, Electrical Engineer, racer par excellence, is your guy. check out the site, give him a call, and he will deliver exactly what you need. the system is very adjustable and dependable.
if you are running around 350/425 an M10 (630 cc per minute) will work well. around 600 or less an M15.
at that input you will not generally blow your motor if something fails. i buy methanol around Wisconsin at approx $2.25 per gallon and you don't go thru a ton of it.
i am not surprised by jsnow82's experience. i do believe that we all have misfires, the only question is the degree. if you are dynoing set the plot to zero smoothing and start looking around peak torque for tiny power jiggles which are misfires. you will not generally feel them.
while there can be numerous causes, such as too wide a plug gap (.023 works for most), the water element can (not always) be one cause. 100% methanol is one of the very best cures.
given it is a fuel your AI system should be significantly upgraded. no plastic lines, no push on connectors. i recommend, and have run since 2003, the Alkycontrol system. it is as good as Methanol is as an injectant. Julio Don, proprietor, Electrical Engineer, racer par excellence, is your guy. check out the site, give him a call, and he will deliver exactly what you need. the system is very adjustable and dependable.
if you are running around 350/425 an M10 (630 cc per minute) will work well. around 600 or less an M15.
at that input you will not generally blow your motor if something fails. i buy methanol around Wisconsin at approx $2.25 per gallon and you don't go thru a ton of it.
04-04-18, 03:54 AM
#7
Late to the reply. I don't come here very often anymore. As to your question....why would you go to all the trouble and expense of running both e85 and AI? It's redundant and the reason many of us run AI is to avoid all the baggage of e85. So...no, it's not worth it imo.
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04-04-18, 06:22 AM
#8
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
Late to the reply. I don't come here very often anymore. As to your question....why would you go to all the trouble and expense of running both e85 and AI? It's redundant and the reason many of us run AI is to avoid all the baggage of e85. So...no, it's not worth it imo.
04-04-18, 07:13 AM
#9
Originally Posted by SirLaughsALot
Actually, I'm in the other camp. I think e85 flex fuel is simple. Sensors, PTFE Lines, Larger Injectors, More Fuel Pump(s). My setup is go to a gas station and 2-stroke reservoir for oil injection is relatively large, so I never have to add stupid premix. The downside of Water/Meth injection is it's only safe while you have it, and unless you're running a 5 gallon AEM tank, expect to fill that sucker up frequently. That's an annoying (not ideal for ROADTRIPS!) discomfort and that's the REAL baggage. There are e85 stations everywhere and the best part about a real flex fuel setup is you're setup to run on pump 91/93 or e85 and all the blends in between.
04-04-18, 07:16 AM
#10
Actually, I'm in the other camp. I think e85 flex fuel is simple. Sensors, PTFE Lines, Larger Injectors, More Fuel Pump(s). My setup is go to a gas station and 2-stroke reservoir for oil injection is relatively large, so I never have to add stupid premix. The downside of Water/Meth injection is it's only safe while you have it, and unless you're running a 5 gallon AEM tank, expect to fill that sucker up frequently. That's an annoying (not ideal for ROADTRIPS!) discomfort and that's the REAL baggage. There are e85 stations everywhere and the best part about a real flex fuel setup is you're setup to run on pump 91/93 or e85 and all the blends in between.
Regardless having BOTH an AI system and e85 seems a little redundant.
Good debate topic anyway.
04-04-18, 11:54 AM
#11
Actually, I'm in the other camp. I think e85 flex fuel is simple. Sensors, PTFE Lines, Larger Injectors, More Fuel Pump(s). My setup is go to a gas station and 2-stroke reservoir for oil injection is relatively large, so I never have to add stupid premix. The downside of Water/Meth injection is it's only safe while you have it, and unless you're running a 5 gallon AEM tank, expect to fill that sucker up frequently. That's an annoying (not ideal for ROADTRIPS!) discomfort and that's the REAL baggage. There are e85 stations everywhere and the best part about a real flex fuel setup is you're setup to run on pump 91/93 or e85 and all the blends in between.
04-13-18, 12:49 AM
#12
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
Your argument seems valid if you live in the western part of the US but, for those of us that live on the east coast will most likely stick with the meth injection because of the rarity of gas stations carrying E85. I live in northeast PA and would have to drive 60 miles to get to the nearest station with E85.
Heyyy, as long as it makes your power goals and doesn't inconvenience you, that's the answer you need!
04-17-18, 12:07 PM
#13
I ran -30* washer fluid for 2 years because I got tired of mixing methanol. It's roughly 30% methanol, so it still gets the job done. The tip of the nozzle and charge piping was blue and a little chalky after a season, but it comes off easy. I ended up switching to straight water injection and ran tap water. Never had any issues with that and even pulled the nozzle to test at the end of a season on water and there was no blockage. Spray pattern looked like it did from day 1. I ran over 30psi occasionally on straight water and 93 octane. It pretty much never saw less than 25psi lol. I had the Devil's 2.5 gallon tank behind the cargo boxes and it'd last me about a week on water. Less on washer fluid.
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RGHTBrainDesign (04-17-18)
04-20-18, 07:58 AM
#15
Are you referring to me?
I still have the car, but no longer rotary. I pulled the entire driveline out of it 1.5 years ago and sold everything rotary (still running great, btw!) The guy who bought my engine drives the hell out of it and it's still together.
Current setup is a twin turbo LS, T56 Magnum trans, and 8.8 IRS. Should be done this summer. I bought a house that's pretty close to an E85 station if I ever need more than ~15psi on the V8, but doubt that'll really be necessary unless going to the track. The car should make mid 600s whp on pump gas only. No more meth injeciton for me.
I still have the car, but no longer rotary. I pulled the entire driveline out of it 1.5 years ago and sold everything rotary (still running great, btw!) The guy who bought my engine drives the hell out of it and it's still together.
Current setup is a twin turbo LS, T56 Magnum trans, and 8.8 IRS. Should be done this summer. I bought a house that's pretty close to an E85 station if I ever need more than ~15psi on the V8, but doubt that'll really be necessary unless going to the track. The car should make mid 600s whp on pump gas only. No more meth injeciton for me.
07-30-18, 07:41 AM
#16
Late to the reply. I don't come here very often anymore. As to your question....why would you go to all the trouble and expense of running both e85 and AI? It's redundant and the reason many of us run AI is to avoid all the baggage of e85. So...no, it's not worth it imo.
I think that running a small bit of w/m on top of the E85 will serve as an octane buffer to the variable ethanol content at the pump in addition to lowering IATs and helping to keep the gunky e85 build up out of the engine. While the combo definitely causes the car to have more user input for driving, nothing sucks like grenading a motor.
Skeese
07-30-18, 08:03 AM
#17
That sounds more like a critique of E85 than justification for adding AI...along with the additional sensors, controllers etc (baggage). But I’ll concede, if it’s huge hp for the dyno sheet or a dedicated track car it might have its place. My car isn’t either.
Last edited by Sgtblue; 07-30-18 at 10:39 AM.
