Need Some Advice
 

Hey everyone, I am currently upgrading my FD and am have little to no knowledge about e85. I understand e85 requires about 33% more fuel to flow.

My old setup was:
2x 850/2x 1300
In tank Nippon Denso pump.
GT35R .84A/r
AEM Water/Meth
My car was tuned at 367rwhp @ 13psi

I'm now going with:
2x ID1000/2x ID2000
same in tank Nippon Denso and an external A1000 Pump using a surge tank.
GT4088R 1.06A/r

What kind of numbers should I expect with this kind of setup? Would i be safer to just run pump gas with the meth? I know there are alot of experienced tuners and rotary guys running e85. Any feedback, good or bad will be taken as constructive criticism. I hope to hear from you guys. Thanks

well, i guess nobody cares to chime in..lol.

your posting in the alternative fuels section, meaning this isn't exactly a typical installation or everyday. might wanna give it more then 14 hours for someone how has done this to reply.

I have zero experience with E85 so anything id say would be completely illegitimate unsupported values, the most my car sees is 10% ethanol and about 6% lead. I see a lot of guys on the haltech forums going with ethanol but haven't seen more then a hand full of rotaries.
are you looking for streetability or track use? road race or dragstrip? horse power goals or overall performance goals?

but if you twist my arm i think it's capable of over nine thousand.

SWAG answer
 

Though I know the answer for my similar setup (~460 RWHP), I have one in-tank and two external 044 pumps supplying 4 ID2000's. The flow bottleneck on my setup is the static flow of the single in-tank 044 pump. So to answer your question let's start with a couple of questions:

• what boost levels are you planning for; at least 20psi with that turbo I hope and 25 being more appropriate.
• what is the max flow for the Aeromotive pump at your projected max (line) fuel pressure?
• what is the max flow of the Denso (FD3S, Cosmo, Supra, et?) pump at no-load/static pressure?

Assuming:
- 20psi of boost,
- 43.5psi fuel pressure base,
- at least 13.5v at both pumps,
- appropriate porting

I'd SWAG that you'll be limited to ~400rwhp because of either the internal or external pumps. So no definitive answers but a point in the right direction at least.

BTW, I'll take an E85 setup over a pump gas with water/meth injection any day! Just remember that the enthanol percentage in E85 IS NOT THE SAME though the year in most regions. Search 'Seasonal Blend" if you have a question.

Thanks for your reply.

I do plan to take this car on the streets often, but not everyday like i used to. I don't plan on drag racing anymore as it's not as fun in my opinion as road racing.

The reasons I am asking for some advice are because I don't work with fuel systems everyday and I have never worked with e85.

Even just an idea is better than none at all, I'm asking for ideas as well as some experienced advice.

Thanks for your input. As for some the the answers I should know. Unfortunately I'm not as experienced in fuel systems or sadly my own fuel setup :( I have been finding out alot lately that turning wrench's and tuning are very different from each other. I guess I'm lucky that my tuner is very experienced and the guy's at Lucky 7 Racing always have very good advice also.

You put up some very good numbers. :icon_tup:

I do plan on running anywhere from 20psi to 25psi.

Honestly, I don't know how much fuel my pump will be able to flow with the current fuel lines. I am having all my fuel lines replaced with SS lines before it gets tuned.

Yeah, I don't know what the Denso Supra pump flows at static/no load. :dunno:
Honestly, I have been thinking about finding an alternative solution to that pump. Either a bigger pump or eliminating it and running another external A1000.

I forgot to mention that I am running a Half-Bridgeport 13b-rew.

So let's say I have the Supra Pump removed, 2 A1000's with the minimum 13.5v and my FPR set at 43.5. I am honestly looking for around 450rwhp, I will still be happy with lower 400's though.

I feel that anything more would be great to brag about, but my driving skills will not show my FD's true potential on the track. I would like to experience the 400-450rwhp range for awhile before I even think about moving up.

Which means that my setup will not change much for about 3 1/2 - 4 years because I'm moving to Japan and my FD is not. My car is being taken care of by my good friends at Lucky 7 Racing until my return.

Thanks for the e85 tip, I have been reading alot about it for the last couple of days and finding out the pros/cons. I feel like the pro's out weight the cons enough for me to stick with that route. I really want to keep my setup as simple as possible with the minimum amount of failure points.


Here are a couple of clips of my fd when it was streetported with 300rwhp and my last tune with the half-bridge and 367rwhp.

http://www.youtube.com/user/jforgas20#p/u/3/OVrAeiO59Ns

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byzdk2vUlFs

Here is what I am running. Made 545 RWHP using this system.
I am running 4XID2000 injectors.
The sump is fed by an intank Walbro. 2X044 Bosch pumps on the sump. The sump alone has enough fuel for around 1 minute @ 800 RWHP.
Also, the ID2000's idle perfectly @ 13.5:1 AFR.
If you are interested in this setup, talk to Jason at Injector Dynamics.

Here it is mounted under the car.

That is sick. I don't have the funds for that right now..

that setup is pretty sick, what made you decide to do an under car sump rather than putting both pumps in the tank. Also would an inline 044 fed by a walbro (without a sump) create enough fuel for a 450whp e85 setup? I would imagine it would considering the walbro would be free flowing and the 044 would be creating the pressure.

good questions. I'm interested in the answers to those also.

I ended up with dual 044s in tank and I will tell you that, while it works, and the kit that I used is great (from CJ Motorsports), I would not do it again as it's such a tight fit, it's not worth the trouble. You'd be better off either getting a custom tank/sump on the stocker and running them externally. Easier access, plumbing, wiring, etc.

This is how I ended up plumbing/wiring the thing...

http://railgun69.homeip.net/TempRX7/...s/_DSC8118.JPG

I won't get into the details as they're in another thread somewhere, but I will tell you that

1) Once this is in, it's in. As it's the stock hole in the tank, you NEED to remove the hoses to get the assembly out.

2) The stock baffle inteferes with everything. My float is now floating around in the tank as it clipped the baffle during the final install and has forced the float lever up, so I always have a full tank. Though, at least the low level light still works.

3) These suck so much fuel that in certain conditions, you'll starve the interior of the baffling before it can refill, especially if you don't have the return there or in such a way that it causes cavatation.

I'm running 6xID1000s. At ~20PSI boost on 80 PSI base fuel I am hitting 90+% DC. I will probably go to 2000s for the primaries. I figured the injectors at that pressure and boost would be plenty, but apparenly my math sucks. I got ~480WHP out of this. Half bridge on a T04Z. I've got enough pump, that's for sure.

I think I'll bite the bullet and say I'm the example of how NOT to do your tank side setup.

Yeah... I had a dual in tank setup before I went to the external pumps and it was a total PIA. Like you say, the opening to the tank is barely big enough to cram those in there.

i've been running e85 for a couple of years now,i use 2 walbros and 1 bosch 044,i got 4 1600 now maxed out at 640hp on a mustang dyno.Going back in a couple of weeks, I aded an extra injector to see if hit 700hp looks like the car will make it, I hope that helps u