E85 and engine wear!?
 

As the topic suggests.... what are your experiences with e85 and enginewear?
I live in sweden and good quality e85 is avalible everywere, the problem is that both the engine builders and the tuners here is telling me to absolutly NOT go for e85 since the engine will wear down
extremly fast, but on this forum i can only find positive feedback.

I find this wierd and i want your oppinions!

My goal is 400+ Reliable whp for street and track!

Setup atm:
id1300 all stainless x4
bosch 044 in tank with jay racing prefilter
an8 stainless feed and an6 stainless return.
e85 capable FPR
stainless fuel filter
fresh s4 tII rebuild with premix only and 3mm apex
t04s BB p-trim
ffe trigger
aem coils
haltech ps1000
dual 38mm wastgates
and so on and so on

I've heard this theory before also.. however i dont think the fuel has been used long enough to really make any claims that it wears the engine down faster long term.. just make sure you premix plenty and change the oil a little more frequent and it should be fine. and every now and then run a tank of pump gas through to clean your fuel system.

Don't believe everything you hear about E85.
There are certain factions that want you to think it is bad.

the fuel shouldn't cause internal wear, in your case i think you just happened across a few shops that blamed fuel for other build quality issues.

everyone wants to be the first to make a claim but if you're wrong you sound like an idiot. in this case i think the latter happens to be true.


i've heard the same things said about biodiesel, perhaps in this case these shops are mistakingly talking about biodiesel. and in those cases it is because the fuel isn't filtered well enough or the injection method not altered to inject enough fuel causing the engines to run lean and promote wear. biodiesel is thicker and will run through a fuel system slower than pump diesel will, especially if you don't thin it down very well. the cheaper you are with it, the more you usually harm your car in using it.

E85 itself should be cleaner than pump gasoline, assuming your fuel system is clean enough to match it.

okey, thank you very much for your oppinions and your experienses!
i will go to the dyno at may 9th and it will be e85 :-)
i just hope my fuel system will meet my goals of 400hp...
what is a good afr to shoot for during load and cruise?
i was thinking high 11 during load and high 12 during cruise.. maybe even leaner during cruise

You will have a little room to grow with your current set up, just dont forget to run the correct pre-mix

High 11's under load ??? why are you thinking that ?

I believe he is talking in terms of gasoline afr's not e85 as those would be about the correct lambda equivelants if he doesn't change his afr settings to match the different fuel.

Ok

Yea, it would have to be gas equivalent afrs, that's what I do because that's what I'm used to, in the end it's all the same lambda. I run about 17-18 during cruise and about 13 at atmospheric right now on my na but I'm only trying to iron out my na portions of my map before I throw my turbo on.

hillbilly science, yeee-haaaw (wrt the internal wear claims)



.

I'm not sure you will have enough fuel injector for 400whp+ but E85 is definitely not an engine killer. It's actually the opposite!

One big thing I've had issues with is making sure you get a very good fuel filter. I run 6 micron fiberglass post-pump filters.

"I'm not sure you will have enough fuel injector for 400whp+(on E85)"

Copeland is correct.

rule number one:

always have enough fuel to match your turbo's max airflow.

TO4s (60-1)

max air 60 pounds per minute.

i suggest you need to match the air at 10.0 AFR both from injector and fuel pump capacity, otherwise if you get a stuck wastgate you will need a new motor.

so, starting w gas...

60 pounds air
6 pounds gas.

6/6.35 = .9448 gallons per minute or 3576 CC/Minute

you have 4 1300 CC/Minute injectors or 5200 CC/Minute

that's Gross, we need net into the motor so we need to remove two items from 5200

85% duty cycle max so 5200 X .85 = 4420 CC

13% lag 4420 X .87 = 3845 CC net into the motor

you need 3576, you have 3845.... good on gas.

unlike gas, it is not quite yet settled as to how much more E85 is required V gas.

generally people talk 30 to 40% so i will do both.

you needed 3576 for gas.

if E85 requires 30% more 3576 X 1.3 = 4648

if E85 requires 40% more 3576 X 1.4 = 5006

you have 3845

if you are running on E85 and your wastegate sticks you will be looking for a new motor and larger fuel injectors.

how about your 044?

your turbo makes max air at 18 psi. add that to 3 Bar static and you are at 61.5 or 4.2 Bar.

If you have hardwired your 044 so as to get 13.5 volts it will do 270 L/Hr or 4500 cc. a small portion of that will be removed due to resistance in the lines and filters. the pump at 13.5 V is fine for gas and marginal on E85. (BTW, i ran that pump on 100% meth so it will be o k on E85 as far as the corrosion aspect)

add a Kenne Bell Boost A Pump and run it at 16 volts and the pump will do 6320.

howard

I remember reading that post a few weeks ago. I think I calculated somewhere around 9k cc gross for injector sizing if I wanted to max my turbo at 10:1 gas equivalent afr on e85. That is a huge amount of fuel, but as you've said many times Howard, it's better to be prepared if something sticks. I'd need 4 2k's as secondaries plus my stock 460's.