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Should I switch to an adaptronic PnP for my single turbo FD?
Hey what’s up guys, I have a 92 JDM FD that Ive been putting together for a few months. I have a newer Power FC with the OLED commander and a datalogit on the car now. I just finished up the build not too long ago and I just don’t know if I’m happy with the power fc. I thought about switching to a Haltech with a patch harness but then started reading up and watching videos on adaptronic and there’s so much more information on it than there is for the Power FC. I’d like to eventually switch over to E85 and I’m going to run into some hurdles with a power fc and e85.
The mods to my car are:
Stock ported 13B-REW
aspec 500r single turbo
ID1000x primaries ID1300x secondaries
walbro 255lph fuel pump rewired
ETS FMIC
Power FC
full 3” exhaust
all braided lines with aeromotive FPR (base fuel pressure at 43psi)
apexi AVCR boost controller
custom factory replacement wiring harness built by ludwig motorsports
ign1a coils
I'm only running off the wastegate spring pressure of 5psi but want to switch out the spring to 11psi and start raising the boost. I figure it’s a good time to switch the ecu if I end up deciding to do so.
My main reason being I want to run e85 with a flex fuel sensor and I don’t have that capability with my power FC and ease of use. I’m familiar with haltechs but the power fc was new to me when I first put it in.
I’ve replaced most of the stock sensors with brand new factory replacements with the exception of the map sensor, it’s a 3 bar map sensor and the air temp sensor, I installed a fast reacting sensor.
Let me know what your opinions are if it’s worth it to change out to an adaptronic at this point. Thanks for reading this!
I'm confused. When are you planning on upgrading to a proper fuel pump? Weldon, Bosch, etc
Personally, for Flex Fuel tuning, I prefer the Haltech Elite to the Adaptronic M6000. Just a preference though. I mean, if you can get away with an AEM Infinity 506 for your setup, that'd be a great setup too.
Download each software and REALLY get deep into reading each sub-forum and the depth of understanding each product. To me, it wasn't an easy choice at first until I really started digging deep into software and building up proper basemaps to my liking. I found that there was always a trade off, whether it be $$$, features, quality of software, robustness/reliability, etc.
With your IGN-1A coils, on the Adaptronic for instance, you can't do anything but Voltage vs. RPM, which sucks.
I was planning on switching the fuel pump from the current t 255lph walbro to the e85 450lph walbro pump when I get closer to switching over. All of my lines from the firewall forward are e85 compatible but everything else from the tank to the firewall is just the stock lines.
After doing a lot of reading and comparisons I decided to go with a Haltech Elite 1500. I downloaded the software and I like it a lot better than fc edit with the power fc. I had a Sprint RE on my old convertible FC and I liked the software, it seems the new ESP software is similar but a lot more features. I had a Haltech e6k on my old 10th anniversary a long time ago.. Haltech software has came a long way since the programming software from back then.
I was planning on switching the fuel pump from the current t 255lph walbro to the e85 450lph walbro pump when I get closer to switching over. All of my lines from the firewall forward are e85 compatible but everything else from the tank to the firewall is just the stock lines.
After doing a lot of reading and comparisons I decided to go with a Haltech Elite 1500. I downloaded the software and I like it a lot better than fc edit with the power fc. I had a Sprint RE on my old convertible FC and I liked the software, it seems the new ESP software is similar but a lot more features. I had a Haltech e6k on my old 10th anniversary a long time ago.. Haltech software has came a long way since the programming software from back then.
Great move. I got the 2500 for no real reason, but the 1500 is all you need to run a single turbo 2 rotor and gets you all the benefits of ESP. Haltech has maintained the pinout of the critical functions on these universal ECUs all the way back to the e6k, so you can use a patch harness from any series ecu with the elite and an oem harness. I'm running the 2500 on an old e6k patch and it works flawlessly.
I second SirLaughsAlot, which is a first. But to also be fair I did show him the light regarding the same matter.
Go haltech elite and never look back, you'll never have a reason too.
Skeese
Bahaha, yes, absolutely a first.
Oh, I had a 30min chat with Matt @ Haltech today at SEMA. Can't tell you what we talked about, but things are looking up for my specific application. Even better OEM Integration on the horizon.
Great move. I got the 2500 for no real reason, but the 1500 is all you need to run a single turbo 2 rotor and gets you all the benefits of ESP. Haltech has maintained the pinout of the critical functions on these universal ECUs all the way back to the e6k, so you can use a patch harness from any series ecu with the elite and an oem harness. I'm running the 2500 on an old e6k patch and it works flawlessly.
pm me if you need any help getting setup
Skeese
Since you have used both would you mind doing a comparison? I have some gist of the pros and cons of both, but trying to find the light.
Since you have used both would you mind doing a comparison? I have some gist of the pros and cons of both, but trying to find the light.
They are the same ecu, the 2500 just has more inputs/outputs so you can drive more **** if you need to. I got the 2500 as I wanted to use three stage injection for my 6 injectors, but by no means did I actually need it.
So it really just depends on how much you are going to drive with it. Would suggest going to the haltech page and checking out the schematics thay detail I/O and you can pretty easily tick down the list and see where you are
They are the same ecu, the 2500 just has more inputs/outputs so you can drive more **** if you need to. I got the 2500 as I wanted to use three stage injection for my 6 injectors, but by no means did I actually need it.
So it really just depends on how much you are going to drive with it. Would suggest going to the haltech page and checking out the schematics thay detail I/O and you can pretty easily tick down the list and see where you are
Actually meant your thoughts on the Adaptronic vs Haltech.
I've played with ESP and have gone through various engine management subforums, but unfortunately, unless I switch there isn't much motivation to keep exploring or run into issues or problems.
Actually meant your thoughts on the Adaptronic vs Haltech.
I've played with ESP and have gone through various engine management subforums, but unfortunately, unless I switch there isn't much motivation to keep exploring or run into issues or problems.
Both companies do everything fully in-house, unlike a lot of other ECU companies out there.
Seriously, just download both softwares and try to build up unique setups to your application in each. Bring in injector data, coil data, etc and really try to maximize the information that the ECU sees from your sensors (you should have sensor resistance values input directly off the product datasheet). The more accurate you can build your tables, the less the ECU has to chase it's tail. I think Seth would agree with me on this, but besides total ignorance, the #1 mistake people are making is due to compounding compensations.
When it comes to Flex Fuel, Drive By Wire, or building out custom tables, Haltech is the better option.
When it comes to integrated hardware on the main ECU itself, Adaptronic has the edge with accelerometer, a second MAP sensor, etc.
There's similar amounts of I/O from a M6000 to a 2500 Elite, so it's all based on what you're going for. I like the idea of OEM integration using my factory dash buttons and such to trigger things for the ECU. That's why more I/O is great for ME personally.
Just gotta experiment and find what you really need. Andy and his staff at Adaptronic are amazing to deal with and can build out custom firmwares for you as your needs change. The Haltech family is all in house. They can just talk cubicle to cubicle for anything from hardware integration to firmware setup. There could be no better support system. I think that Adaptronic has come a long way and for the price point, you're making VERY FEW compromises. It's an excellent choice. However, I still believe the software to be "meh" and some of the logic behind it I'm not 100% on. They'll be a great ECU company with more time. Haltech is SOLID. You won't get an issue from either their software or hardware because of the extensive time they spend on R&D. That's why updates you see from them are in waves.
Hey what’s up guys, I have a 92 JDM FD that Ive been putting together for a few months. I have a newer Power FC with the OLED commander and a datalogit on the car now. I just finished up the build not too long ago and I just don’t know if I’m happy with the power fc. I thought about switching to a Haltech with a patch harness but then started reading up and watching videos on adaptronic and there’s so much more information on it than there is for the Power FC. I’d like to eventually switch over to E85 and I’m going to run into some hurdles with a power fc and e85.
The mods to my car are:
Stock ported 13B-REW
aspec 500r single turbo
ID1000x primaries ID1300x secondaries
walbro 255lph fuel pump rewired
ETS FMIC
Power FC
full 3” exhaust
all braided lines with aeromotive FPR (base fuel pressure at 43psi)
apexi AVCR boost controller
custom factory replacement wiring harness built by ludwig motorsports
ign1a coils
I'm only running off the wastegate spring pressure of 5psi but want to switch out the spring to 11psi and start raising the boost. I figure it’s a good time to switch the ecu if I end up deciding to do so.
My main reason being I want to run e85 with a flex fuel sensor and I don’t have that capability with my power FC and ease of use. I’m familiar with haltechs but the power fc was new to me when I first put it in.
I’ve replaced most of the stock sensors with brand new factory replacements with the exception of the map sensor, it’s a 3 bar map sensor and the air temp sensor, I installed a fast reacting sensor.
Let me know what your opinions are if it’s worth it to change out to an adaptronic at this point. Thanks for reading this!
Frank
Hi frank I would like to chime in here because none of the individual's here have even used an Adaptronic modular ECU. They have used the Selects and their opinions are based on such. A little background of myself I am the sales/technical manager at Turbosource and I work with Adaptronic ECU's every single day.
So based on your questions I would advise the Adaptronic Modular FD PnP unit. This is going to give you by far the best bang for your buck and here are the reasons why.
1. You will not need a different engine harness or jumper harness to use the ECU.
2. Cost of the PnP ECU is $1349.00
3. Flex Fuel support/fuel modeling - Adaptronic has spent a vast amount of research utilizing suggestions from industry leaders one of which you already own his products - ID injectors (Paul yaw) to develop a very advanced and user friendly fuel model. The injector's you have are already been fully characterized by Adaptronic and is just a simple drop down. (extremely user friendly). Through Adaptronic's research they have suggested that it is HIGHLY recommend to have a fuel pressure sensor to further more utilize the fuel model that they have developed which tells the ECU exactly what the flow of the injector is at its current fuel pressure along with differential fuel pressure protection. We at Turbosource have utilized adaptronic's ability to change source locations for specific sensors and created a Plug N Play fuel pressure sensor solution (no wiring required). So now to flex fuel which is fully supported in Adaptronic's fuel model. It does require you to install the flex fuel sensor which with Adaptronic's Interactive wiring and installation guide makes identification of what pin to use a breeze. Not only reading the fuel ethanol content the ECU can also read the fuel temperature through the flex fuel sensor. You ask why does that matter? Well back to Adaptronics Fuel model it will trim for fuel density which its calculation is dictated from the fuel temperature. In the Adaptronic software you will select the stoich detection to flex fuel sensor and it will automaticly set your stoich based on ethanol content which does most of the work when switching back and forth from ethanol to gasoline. Also once the flex fuel selection is activated it enables multiple new maps that let you adjust both 0% fuel/timing/boost maps and ethanol content fuel/time/boost maps along with more advanced fuel film model functions . Here is Andy from Adaptronic's overview of the flex fuel control video on youtube:
Hi frank I would like to chime in here because none of the individual's here have even used an Adaptronic modular ECU. They have used the Selects and their opinions are based on such. A little background of myself I am the sales/technical manager at Turbosource and I work with Adaptronic ECU's every single day.
So based on your questions I would advise the Adaptronic Modular FD PnP unit. This is going to give you by far the best bang for your buck and here are the reasons why.
1. You will not need a different engine harness or jumper harness to use the ECU.
2. Cost of the PnP ECU is $1349.00
3. Flex Fuel support/fuel modeling - Adaptronic has spent a vast amount of research utilizing suggestions from industry leaders one of which you already own his products - ID injectors (Paul yaw) to develop a very advanced and user friendly fuel model. The injector's you have are already been fully characterized by Adaptronic and is just a simple drop down. (extremely user friendly). Through Adaptronic's research they have suggested that it is HIGHLY recommend to have a fuel pressure sensor to further more utilize the fuel model that they have developed which tells the ECU exactly what the flow of the injector is at its current fuel pressure along with differential fuel pressure protection. We at Turbosource have utilized adaptronic's ability to change source locations for specific sensors and created a Plug N Play fuel pressure sensor solution (no wiring required). So now to flex fuel which is fully supported in Adaptronic's fuel model. It does require you to install the flex fuel sensor which with Adaptronic's Interactive wiring and installation guide makes identification of what pin to use a breeze. Not only reading the fuel ethanol content the ECU can also read the fuel temperature through the flex fuel sensor. You ask why does that matter? Well back to Adaptronics Fuel model it will trim for fuel density which its calculation is dictated from the fuel temperature. In the Adaptronic software you will select the stoich detection to flex fuel sensor and it will automaticly set your stoich based on ethanol content which does most of the work when switching back and forth from ethanol to gasoline. Also once the flex fuel selection is activated it enables multiple new maps that let you adjust both 0% fuel/timing/boost maps and ethanol content fuel/time/boost maps along with more advanced fuel film model functions . Here is Andy from Adaptronic's overview of the flex fuel control video on youtube: https://youtu.be/8-ZL3VvUoJ8
There is an abundant amount of other options that this ECU will allow you to do even with the PnP model.
Also to finish this off. You also get the support from myself who can help you from A-Z when setting up your Adaptronic Modular ECU.
Give us a call and we can go into more details if you like 10am-6pm m-f 763-753-9939
Cheers,
Shawn Christenson
Bold assumption as to what I have and haven't tuned. Just because I don't work in a shop doesn't by any means define my ability or experience.
If anything I'm not tied to any one ecu by being a vendor. When asked A, B or C the opinion I respond with is without bias and truly representative of my thoughts on the product's functionality and capability. I can tune anything, from Rtek to megasquirt to pfc to aem to haltech and yes a modular adaptronic.
I've yet to hear of 1 single case where an end user or tuner has been dissatisfied with any model of the elite. The same can't be said about the modular by any stretch. It's a critical and expensive component capable of destroying a motor, no need to gamble.
Bold assumption as to what I have and haven't tuned. Just because I don't work in a shop doesn't by any means define my ability or experience.
If anything I'm not tied to any one ecu by being a vendor. When asked A, B or C the opinion I respond with is without bias and truly representative of my thoughts on the product's functionality and capability. I can tune anything, from Rtek to megasquirt to pfc to aem to haltech and yes a modular adaptronic.
I've yet to hear of 1 single case where an end user or tuner has been dissatisfied with any model of the elite. The same can't be said about the modular by any stretch. It's a critical and expensive component capable of destroying a motor, no need to gamble.
To each their own, I'm just a pawn.
Skeese
Seth.... It isnt bold because its the truth.. Also how can you make a comparison between a haltech Elite and the Select? Its kind of a joke.. Yes I am saying the Elite is better then the select ECU's... So with that being said the Elite vs the Modular is a fair comparison between the two products... Which you have not even tuned a modular yet which is COMPLETELY different then a select ecu. Nor did I say you don't have the ability to tune one. I believe you are ignorant to think you are not completely one sided in your posts on this page. Please give me examples of Adaptronic modular units you have tuned from start to finish? Prove my argument wrong.
Seth.... It isnt bold because its the truth.. Also how can you make a comparison between a haltech Elite and the Select? Its kind of a joke.. Yes I am saying the Elite is better then the select ECU's... So with that being said the Elite vs the Modular is a fair comparison between the two products... Which you have not even tuned a modular yet which is COMPLETELY different then a select ecu. Nor did I say you don't have the ability to tune one. I believe you are ignorant to think you are not completely one sided in your posts on this page. Please give me examples of Adaptronic modular units you have tuned from start to finish? Prove my argument wrong.
Thanks,
Shawn Christenson
Shawn
Since you know my name I'll assume you know everything about me.
Meanwhile you literally don't know the meaning of the term "yield" or how to spell it and continually misuse the word when trying to act like you know what you're talking about when really you just heard something to repeat. Then go on to call me ignorant.
I do not have to justify myself to you. Seriously, you can regurgitate whatever tech you want, but it just face value interfaces at best. You're a salesman, not an engineer. Don't confuse the two.
It's a forum, guy asked for an opinion. I gave mine. Then you show up late as **** in true fashion representative of adaptronic tech and think you can invalidate what's been said because you're work at a shop and I dont. Then call me ignorant.
Now if you will, leave leave the drama out of the forums. That's what fake news Facebook is for. Feel free to PM me or call me if you need to know more, I'm here anytime.
Since you know my name I'll assume you know everything about me.
Meanwhile you literally don't know the meaning of the term "yield" or how to spell it and continually misuse the word when trying to act like you know what you're talking about when really you just heard something to repeat. Then go on to call me ignorant.
I do not have to justify myself to you. Seriously, you can regurgitate whatever tech you want, but it just face value interfaces at best. You're a salesman, not an engineer. Don't confuse the two.
It's a forum, guy asked for an opinion. I gave mine. Then you show up late as **** in true fashion representative of adaptronic tech and think you can invalidate what's been said because you're work at a shop and I dont. Then call me ignorant.
Now if you will, leave leave the drama out of the forums. That's what fake news Facebook is for. Feel free to PM me or call me if you need to know more, I'm here anytime.
Skeese aka Seth Allen
864-421-2449
Once again you prove my point! You continue to be consumed by this unending drive to prove you are superior... I find your response rather humorous that you accuse me of ignorance of your intelligence but in the same sentence you are then doing the same action to me. You assume that I am just this salesman who is dead set on selling a product to make a buck regardless of the quality of the product ect ect ect. This once again is SOOOOO far from the truth its disgusting. Yes you are right I do not have a engineering degree... I actually do not have a degree at all. I have zero sales experience other then working for Turbosource. But what I do have is 7 years in the telecommunication industry troubleshooting individuals setup's to entire network infrastructure learning from experience (hard knocks) yes I do make mistakes. Yes I might sound like a idiot at times. But I learn from my mistakes and always seek to be as informed as possible to help people figure out what issues they are having and how to fix them. Iv taken this mentality and transferred it now to this industry.
So please take your negativity else where and leave your actual knowledge of a product you have actually used to make a informed answer to what a customer is actually asking which you do quiet frequently that is very supportive in the community.
Once again you prove my point! You continue to be consumed by this unending drive to prove you are superior... I find your response rather humorous that you accuse me of ignorance of your intelligence but in the same sentence you are then doing the same action to me. You assume that I am just this salesman who is dead set on selling a product to make a buck regardless of the quality of the product ect ect ect. This once again is SOOOOO far from the truth its disgusting. Yes you are right I do not have a engineering degree... I actually do not have a degree at all. I have zero sales experience other then working for Turbosource. But what I do have is 7 years in the telecommunication industry troubleshooting individuals setup's to entire network infrastructure learning from experience (hard knocks) yes I do make mistakes. Yes I might sound like a idiot at times. But I learn from my mistakes and always seek to be as informed as possible to help people figure out what issues they are having and how to fix them. Iv taken this mentality and transferred it now to this industry.
So please take your negativity else where and leave your actual knowledge of a product you have actually used to make a informed answer to what a customer is actually asking which you do quiet frequently that is very supportive in the community.
All I see is some guy with a degree taking things way out of context. Ignorant on a specific point does not accuse you of being ignorant overall. That's like saying because cats are mammals, and cats are animals, all animals are mammals. Was it right to be called ignorant in any way? Probably not. You are normally very helpful, but there seems to be some validity of experience between modular and elite. And the person representing Adaptronic has already agreed with you that the Select series does not compete at all with the Elite Series.
All I see is some guy with a degree taking things way out of context. Ignorant on a specific point does not accuse you of being ignorant overall. That's like saying because cats are mammals, and cats are animals, all animals are mammals. Was it right to be called ignorant in any way? Probably not. You are normally very helpful, but there seems to be some validity of experience between modular and elite. And the person representing Adaptronic has already agreed with you that the Select series does not compete at all with the Elite Series.
There history goes back well beyond this thread. On first read thinking I'm just losing it on Shawn over this... sure seems overkill ******* mode dumb. But that isn't the case.
guy asks for a comparison of ecu, myself and sirlaughsalot give fair comparison of ecu, then Shawn comes in and gives a one sided opinion (he sells them for a living) and calls me ignorant lol
Then proceedes to go troll my recent posts and follow me to the haltech forum to further troll me.
I promptly responded to on here for the OP answering his question online, it's a public forum. Shawn showed up late with an adaptronic sales pitch, assumed I don't know squat and am ignorantly talking about something I dont know about, then calls me ignorant.
He claims it's about superiority on my end, but the root of my beef with him comes from his claims about how shop cars are better built, and reliably output more power. Uhhhhh bro. This is not rocket science. You should get down off your basemap tuning tech support high horse. Its annoying to me, at best.
I'll have to show you visually at some point, but it's LTFT/STFT and target based. The Haltech gives me more MANUAL control vs. integrating it into calculations, which makes diagnosis easier for someone running flex fuel and having AFR discrepancies or compounding compensations.
Anyways, here's a really nice 4D mapping of wastegate target control that the Adaptronic doesn't do as well. It's giving me more manual control on things, that's all. From an engineering standpoint, it helps diagnose problems faster, which is my point with all this.
Here's my problem with most Adaptronic Tuners = Usually some stupid cranking of PID controls or basic bitch basemaps with nothing filled in properly. Sensors disabled. Protections Disabled. Seriously effortless and charging an arm and a leg for garbage that is bound to destroy the motor. They're making money from rewiring a different ECU and rebuilding a new motor, not in tuning, so blow em up!
The ignition coil control is still really basic. What if I needed coil dwell vs. ethanol content, or more importantly, coil dwell vs. MAP... All I'm saying is that in the software's current state, it's great for 85%+ of the guys in the market. For those who ask for more manual control and a better software, there are other options out there. In time, Adaptronic will match and possibly even trump those alternatives, but it DOES NOT currently. For it's price point, it's a bitchin' ECU and an excellent choice for anyone needing a near OEM setup.
My local grassroots Haltech "tuner" is notorious for doing ~100% DC injectors on shitty ******* setups. He's rebuilding motors for a living, so why not just blow em all up to spur business? LOL
All I want people to realize is that some people in this industry don't belong. They aren't contributing to help, only to profit. Plenty of dumb peons with money too... Just hoping to make sure we aren't ever part of the problem.
Me:
If you really wish to help customers better, download every available ECU software and study them.
You'll find AEM kicks almost everyone's *** in manual control except when it comes to a few things.
Haltech I'd put second here. Adaptronic 3rd.
Not by ECU features or quality, purely software layout.
Shawn:
Personally cant answer that since I haven't used those products.
Me:
Right. I think it would benefit you substantially.
It'll give you firepower for more situations.
No one on here, including myself, is entirely in the right. I'm just trying to provide information to the original poster to HELP them decide their level of involvement. This selection IS critical and it's important to know differences on products currently available.
Last edited by RGHTBrainDesign; 11-22-17 at 07:53 PM.
I'll start by saying I'm no expert on the subject, however I do know a thing or two about ECU's and tuning. I would also like to note that I'm currently in the research stage of determining which ECU I want to purchase for my project. While researching this, I have spoken to some very reputable shops and tuners about the matter to get their opinion. Let's just say that during my research I was informed that one of the best rotary tuners in the US will not touch Adaptronic ECU's. This is based on purely his past experiences. It makes my decision pretty easy because I believe in tried and true, as well as using an ECU that the tuner is most comfortable and experienced with.
I am in no way bias or affiliated with any shop, ECU, tuner, etc. This purely based on my research.
I'm not sure how it's possible that people say things like that when you can look around the internet daily and find cars with the Adaptronic on the track and dyno without issue...
I will say that is just the one main shop in NJ. Others deal with adaptronic all the time and seems that shop is just losing business or gaining it by switching everyone to their required pfc or haltech. I know and have messages from that shop about their (issues) and have only heard it from them and no one else.
I will say that is just the one main shop in NJ. Others deal with adaptronic all the time and seems that shop is just losing business or gaining it by switching everyone to their required pfc or haltech. I know and have messages from that shop about their (issues) and have only heard it from them and no one else.
So I actually sent Shawn from here to visit that shop in person, and I'm going to share the information I have.
Shop has an engine blow on a dyno, they blame the ecu. They say the exhaust sleeves are white, and this to them indicates a timing drift issue. Zero physical evidence of this, logs don't show anything wrong, timing light never showed an issue, etc.
Come to find out from a tech there, that it was an jspec engine or something to that affect. Some unknown motor.
Another great example, but one with a better ending;
Another shop in NJ installed an Adaptronic select into an Rx8 with an REW swap. They get the car on the dyno it makes like 250/250 at 15-19psi. They check a lot of things over, and the owner blames the ecu... I discover the injector clips are flipped flopped( its got 6 injectors, the same as an Rx-8 with 3 levels of staging). Zero other changes to the car, and wham clears 400rwhp on pump gas...
In my experience when someone doesn't have the answer clearly infront of them to their problems, they ALWAYS blame the ecu...
10-27-17, 07:56 PM
