adlb

Hi Guys,

Currently debating between the powerFC and adaptronic modular. One thing I was wondering was the ruggedness of the basemap?
People seem to be fairly happy running the powerFC on it's base map with a 2/3 bolt-ons with no issues (obviously not making optimum power but fairly "safe"), would the stock adaptronic base map be similarly accomodating?

Details of my car:
JDM import
stock downpipe (no cat in JDM), stock intercooler and air box
stock everywhere apart from rebuilt engine with mild street port

It's currently running a "redom" (Re-amimya) modified ECU (No idea on the map/details of tune etc, other than it's been through 2/3 owners since landing here, and an unknown number in japan!)
Sooner I get this current ecu out the better I think!

$lacker

iTrader: (9)

I found the base map ran fine
That said, there's no reason you shouldn't tune it to make it run better, unless you don't have access to a laptop and/or wideband

I wouldn't get any stand alone ECU without also getting a wide band 02 sensor.
Pull the cat pipe, weld on an 02 bung between the front flange and the cat, reinstall. Easiest place to put it imho

adlb

Sorry, good point, forgot to add that I have an AEM wideband I'll be bringing over from my miata. (Connecting via 0-5V output or ideally CAN)
I've done a some of playing with megasquirts on my miata so hopefully that knowledge will come in useful, I'm a bit more paranoid when it comes to rotary engine work though!
I'd not do timing myself (save it for a dyno) but hopefully I'll be able to hone-in the fuel table.

Megasquirt had an "auto-tune" feature for the fuel map, that either ran while driving (auto) or would process data logs and suggest changes to the VE-table.
Is this sort of thing possible in eugene?

Turblown

iTrader: (12)

Hi adlb,

I would be happy to make a basemap for you that should get you started. Please email me at remotetuning@turbosource.com

You will want to pick up an Innovate 3812 or 3846 cable. Each of these cables have a 4 pin Molex connector on one end. You will cut the 2.5mm serial plug off the 3812 cable or you will cut one of the 4 pin molex connectors off the the 3846 cable. You will then connect the blue wire from the AEM wide band to the white wire on either of the 3812 cables or the 3846 cables. Then you will connect the 4 pin molex connector on the front of the Modular ECU into Serial 1 port.

Then in the software Eugene you will go to the inputs tab then go to the "o2 / Lambda Sensors - General settings -> O2 Sensor 1 -> change the connection to Serial Only -> click Show on the Serial IN 1 Settings Section -> Select the AEM UEGO option under the connection drop down.

Let me know if you have any further questions.

Thanks,
Shawn Christenson

adlb

Hey Shawn, Thanks for the offer, will keep it in mind. I've not ordered my ecu just yet, doing some final planning before going ahead.
Thanks for the info on connecting the wideband, that'll be really useful

RGHTBrainDesign

I don't think this is a smart place to request opinions on an ECU comparison for your new car. You'll get a massive bias on an Adaptronic Forum for the Adaptronic ECU.

Honestly, just go Haltech Elite 1500 and find a competent tuner in your area. Nelson Siverio is willing to come out and tune Haltech pretty much anywhere in the US, just make sure you have it wired up properly.

If you looked over from ECU to ECU on this forum, you'll see the "level" of questions that owners are asking. Haltech owners are developing. AEM and MoTec guys usually have all their **** figured out already. Adaptronic users seem to need babysat during every step of the process and questions are repeated (lazy owners).

Adaptronic is essentially a beta testing site for a small team of FIVE people and something I would suggest you steer away from on a STOCK, RELIABLE car.

Your other option, the PowerFC, is too far dated. You won't find a tuner anymore and those who have the old hardware to tune it with will NOT be cheap. This leads to zero upper expansion.

Here are a few reputable shops to talk to:

LMS-EFI
Eccentric Motorsports
UMS Tuning
Chips Motorsports

If you have any further questions, feel free to shoot me a message on here. Don't be blind. Don't post stuff like this in a forum where there is only one answer. There's a General Engine Management forum for this thread...

Turblown

iTrader: (12)

And there goes Ryan twisting things to better suite his opinion. He will say anything to bash the product.

Skeese

iTrader: (11)

that's because the product is simply incomplete and subpar compared to the alternatives on the market

RGHTBrainDesign

Stop acting like I'm gaining something out of this. I'm trying to PROTECT someone from buying into an unfinished product.

Can Adaptronic be good? YES!

Is it now? NO! Maybe in another 2-3yrs. Two weeks ago another Adaptronic user had ECU software fault during a dyno session, and POP went the engine. If I can't trust a software, then I can't stand by and watch you sling it around like Molly at a rave. You still haven't done any research on ALL of the alternatives (and used their software packages), have you?

Solid Choices: Haltech Elite, Motec, and Fueltech. AEM is lacking I/O, but the Infinity 506 is pretty stout if you're okay with a basic configuration (near stock). New ECU company on the block who's showing up with an incredibly advanced software/hardware combination is Emtron. I'm personally doing Rotary specific software tweaks with them to make sure **** like this NEVER happens.

Cheers, and Good Day, Sir.

Turblown

iTrader: (12)

Id love to see this example of the software "glitching" and "blowing" up an engine.... Because if this was the case I would of gotten a call or seen a complaint. I think your hearsay is a bunch of bullshit...

dguy

iTrader: (8)

I don't really care about the Adaptronic drama however I will agree that if you're asking opinions with regards to what ECU you should deploy it's best to do so outside of subforums dedicated to individual ECUs unless you've got VERY specific questions regarding capability and functionality.

Skeese

iTrader: (11)

The last adaptronic I owned would randomly drop log data at what seemed like the worst times, specifically a lean blip I kept hitting. I started hitting this lean patch that had never been there before and when I'd go check the logs find a big blank gap in time where nothing was recorded. I changed cable, computer, software version, firmware version...and it kept dropping data. The whole deal made me wonder if the lean hiccups I was feeling when driving and couldnt see in the logs were possibly related to something in the ecu or software malfunctioning which in turn dropped the log data output as the leanout blip always came with the blank data. Without the data, there was no way to know one way or the other. Ive still got all those botched logs on my hard drive.

Talked with adaptronic about it and got nowhere. Decided I didnt trust the thing to not grenade my motor, sold it and bought a haltech.

Skeese

Turblown

iTrader: (12)

And how many years ago was this? Lets say that there was this said "glitch" it would be fixed that same day... You act like the product is perpetually going to never improve or get better. Well sir you are ignorant!

Skeese

iTrader: (11)

I'm ignorant? Now that's rich

This was 2 years ago and the software on the current models is obviously still far from complete. No reason to spend years waiting on a product to mature when there are already multiple complete platforms on the market for the same price with rock solid proven operation on all functions advertised. Especially in this case where engine failure will be blamed on poor tuning or builder error regardless.

In true ignert form, I bought a completed product with a proven record that has since performed every function flawlessly.

Skeese

RGHTBrainDesign

I'd like to state that you not using another product is ignorance. Blissful in the fact that you know but ONE, in its mediocrity.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but you are ONLY a dealer for Adaptronic. You don't develop software, you don't carry other alternatives, and you are NOT supporting this forum with informative posts as one would hope. Instead it's always the same, "Use This Product" (usually some Innovate garbage) and "Contact Us" always OUTSIDE of the forum by phone, email, etc.

The whole point of a forum is to SHARE information, but I guess #RealNews ain't your bag. Ohh, and by simply going through the majority of these Adaptronic threads, NO ONE has helped more than Skeese and myself in regards to a support. You just pop your head in when it's an easy answer or a sale to be had...

Cheers.

Skeese

iTrader: (11)

10/10 accurate

rx72c

iTrader: (8)

On the topic of datalogs
for around the last 10 firmware releases the Haltech Elite has had an issue that corrupts your whole on board datalog and you end up with mostly useless data . The issue is intermittent. They have yet to fix it , I know they will be doing so eventually.

I've tuned a fair few modulars and there have been a few issues, many of which have been resolved.

To answer your question specifically in my experience the base map is not as well polished as the power FC but it HAS been enough to fire up a car and get things started.

I would suggest purchasing your ECU through a Dealer who can provide fast and reliable support. Even if that means paying abit extra regardless off the brand.

If you need any other help throw us a pm.

Skeese

iTrader: (11)

Has this been documented online anywhere? I haven't experienced the issue across multiple cars running ESP, and I log everything all the time...

RGHTBrainDesign

How long is your average datalogging event? Are you leaving a laptop connected during the duration? What laptop are you using?

rx72c

iTrader: (8)

Usually when I have given a customer their car back and got it back a month later. Try to do a datalog and the data exported is all fudged.
Not sure if its documented online. I have shown it to the guys at Haltech and they are aware of it.

It isn't an issue when the datalogging event is short.

Skeese

iTrader: (11)

Are you logging to the PC hard drive or the ECU flash memory?

Skeese

RGHTBrainDesign

What do you consider short?

This is exactly why I asked about laptop specs vs. being logged on the Haltech. It only has so much memory, and somehow people are still using laptop 2.5" HDDs instead of Solid State drives while tuning... Of course you're going to have issues if you're grabbing **** at 1kHz for 100ch at once on a drive that can read 50MBit/s or SLOWER.

Bear in mind, USB 2.0 is slow as ****. USB 3.0 is a nice upgrade, but what a few companies have transitioned to as logging has become more and more intensive is ethernet (Cat 6E) to connect Solid State laptop to ECU.

A log shouldn't be over a minute or two because then you're having a hard time sifting through the driving that you've done. Just do a pull or three consecutive pulls and gather data. Make a change, do it again under identical conditions. That's how I street tune anyways and it's worked out great for me.

I'm going to bet the customer is datalogging huge events on the ECU itself, making a corrupt file (which no one would want to read anyways).

dguy

iTrader: (8)

I don't disagree with using an SSD for anything remotely mobile but I think you're confusing megabits (mbps) vs megabytes (MBps) :P Even a 5400rpm 2.5" drive can write more than fast enough for real time data streaming at that level also I don't believe it's a bandwidth issue that prompted the jump from USB after 2.0 (which, I dare say, for these applications isn't actually all that slow). The change most likely (and my memory may be hazy on the subject) has to do with Motec patenting direct serial communications with their ECUs (remember when everybody and their mother except for MoTeC had to use a dongle/adapter for serial comms?) and at the time USB 1.0 was definitely slow, and flaky. The jump from USB is probably 'fallout'/development from that. But I could be out to lunch.

RGHTBrainDesign

No, your drive is just 8x faster than what I've seen people using out there. Hahaha.

It really depends on WHAT you are datalogging and at what refresh rate (frequency). USB 2.0 definitely bottlenecks if you try to log everything at it's maximum frequencies, that's no doubt. The internal processors on these modern ECUs are VERY VERY fast, but sometimes the storage they write to on the ECU or exported to laptop isn't. That's why you're seeing Type C, HDMI, Direct Serial, CAN, and Ethernet.

Still going to chalk that up to user error.

dguy

iTrader: (8)

I agree it's most likely user error but, and I'm not trying to start an argument as I'm just trying to give good info, but your logic is flawed in my opinion. Hell, 'high speed' CAN only runs at 1mbp/s (Megabit, not megabyte), the issue is not throughput or read/write speeds of the hardware you're describing but the hoops that have to be jumped through due to software/hardware emulation/layers etc etc blah blah. Also 'fast' is subjective with regards to processors etc, not objective. The KV8 you're going to roll with (and actually may have convinced me from pinching pennies to run an M150 Dev setup) is actually only 2 100mhz processors. The F16 (I think, it may have been 18) had a targeting computer that ran at 1mhz and that **** could blow jets out of the sky, my tiny god of a computer, however, cannot. They DID/DO have very specific instruction sets that allow them to do things quickly. All this said what I'm saying is that bandwidth isn't the issue.