Skeese

iTrader: (11)

Hey guys!

I'm getting ready to set up my water/meth injection and want to use the adaptronic to control the rate of injection. I searched both on here and on the adaptronic forums and the best reference I was able to find was this thread:

https://www.rx7club.com/adaptronic-e...setup-1078362/

From this I have a pretty solid understanding of how to use the secondary fuel map and to control the flow. My questions here are more specific to what is going to be required from a hardware standpoint in order to achieve this. It seems that if using the adaptronic there would be no need for the map based controller that comes with the progressive kits and that all you need here is a pump, nozzle & jet kit, and a solenoid that the ECU will drive. (not focusing on lines/fittings/tank)

I was looking to get the AEM 200 PSI water/meth pump and the AEM nozzle jet kit. I was unable to figure out which solenoid would work best for this setup. Coolingmist has a stainless steel solenoid but at $70 this seems to be high. Is this solenoid going to be best suited to interface with the Adaptronic's PWM output or is there another solenoid out there that is suitable?

Stainless Steel Solenoid w/ built in fittings

For now, I plan to inject the mixture into my Greddy elbow starting with 100% water then possibly moving to 50/50 water meth at a later date.

Any input would be appreciated! End goal here to to take advantage of the features of my ECU while being able to control the flow better than a map based setup and saving money by not spending money on additional parts that aren't needed for this unique system.

Thanks!

-Seth

Slides

I haven't had a good look at a high pressure install in person, so although the control logic and mapping is easy enough, knowing how different solenoids perform and last running at those pressures is another problem. Probably worth having a look on the different pressure system supplier forums to get feedback.

As you have said you should only need a digital output for a relay to start the pump and the solenoid PWM.

DC5Daniel

iTrader: (10)

Elliot sells a basic kit exactly for this purpose, check out the TurboSource website.

Skeese

iTrader: (11)

Awesome! I was looking into this when I got the reply below.

Thanks! I didn't know that they had such a kit. I'll probably end up going this route. I added the link to this kit below for others who may read this thread and be looking for the same thing.

Adaptronic Water Alcohol Injection Parts

I'm going to email Elliot and see if he can get me the dimensions on the tank. I was planning to use either my oem front or rear wiper fluid tank, but if the one provided can mount and fit somewhere more convenient I'll likely go with it.

Thanks everyone.

-Seth

twin7r1

iTrader: (1)

Seth, any thoughts on the Turbosource adaptronic water injection kit? I'm in the market for a smart kit and just picked up that very same ECU

Skeese

iTrader: (11)

I can't really comment on the water injection kit. I ended up skipping the water/methanol thing and going directly to an E85-flexfuel setup.

If ethanol is available in your area I would highly recommend looking into that instead. The adaptronic does a great job of controlling the ethanol content and makes the flexfuel tuning a breeze. Outside of injectors it isn't very expensive to convert. You would just need an ethanol rated pump, stainless fuel filter, and a flexfuel sensor the combined total of which being under $300.

-Skeese

twin7r1

iTrader: (1)

unfortunately in MD, E85 is almost non existent. I would have to make a 3 1/2 round trip, in a direction I never drive, to north of DC to get any. Thanks though!

twin7r1

iTrader: (1)

Does anyone else have any experience using the adaptronic to control A/I ?

Skeese

iTrader: (11)

Well...

I don't have any experience with that kit but can certainly help you with the adaptronic / wari setup to use the ECU to control the water injection. PM me if you'd like and I can help on that end.

-Skeese

Houstonderk

iTrader: (3)

I'd be curious to this as well as I just got the turbosource kit. Comes with a relay, pump, nozzle, tank and hoses. Guessing it went through changes so it doesn't have a solenoid, just the pump. Basically heard about using the 4R and 4S pins for the adaptronic to use the WI as output 4 but how does that go with a 5 wire relay?

Also the tank has a level sensor, so probably wouldn't tie into the ecu I would guess? May have to find a way to wire up an led or something.

Skeese

iTrader: (11)

I didn't end up doing this, however the setup is pretty simple. You just use fuel map 2 to map the solenoid duty cycle and setup a PWM output as Fuel Map 2 (100%) to drive the valve. Presto...you just avoided having to buy the expensive generic controller that limits you to a linear range guaranteed to not match the actual water/meth need by fuel consumption.

From here it just takes a bit of math to calculate your fuel consumption, and then you can calculate how much duty you need based on the nozzle size and flow specs to achieve the ideal 15% w/m to volume fuel ratio.

Skeese

Houstonderk

iTrader: (3)

I've seen some using the DC map in the actual output page, is that something that can be done as well? Trying to figure a way like that since I use a dual fuel map with switch, since my car runs totally different from the exhaust being free or if I put the silencer in to keep the noise lower. I may just leave it be as well until the tuner, so just wanted to hook everything up for now.

Skeese

iTrader: (11)

Are you talking about where slides set it up as just a 2D output? It is essentially the same thing but with less control. In that case you use a set of conditions like MAP value AND rpm level both exceeding a certain value allowing the output to go live and puts out whatever is in the 2D table.

While this is simple, it accomplished the same thing as the duty cycle map method I describe here but limits you to mapping the flow against RPM and not against RPM and MAP.

You car will need more water/meth at 20 PSI at 6000 RPMs than at 10 PSI at the same 6000 RPMs. Have a map based duty cycle table like I showed here will allow you to maintain the correct amount of w/m flow per volume fuel when changing boost levels if tuned correctly.

Skeese

Joshua Nalley

Hmmm....We should look at this when working on my tuning. I have the Snow Performance kit, just running water for cooling purposes. Made a huge difference on track.

knotsonice

iTrader: (2)

Once I'm able to do a battery relocation I'll be installing my water kit. I think i'm just going to tap into the wiper res and use that for my tank. I wanna put the pump where the battery went.

mikey13b

I emailed Turbosource asking if this kit contains everything required to allow the Adaptronic to be used as the controller, ie does it include a solid state relay, but Shawn replied saying that this kit comes with an AEM water meth control unit which does a progressive system. So it sounds like this is not a kit specifically for the above purpose...

Skeese

iTrader: (11)

Typical adaptronic marketing

MaD^94Rx7

iTrader: (1)

To be fair it was Turbosource who was marketing this product. Adaptronic is not in the business of water injection.

Skeese

iTrader: (11)

Fair

theunitedforge

very interesting read, you could use AutoGPT on a small raspberry pi to have it adjust... I was wondering when I would start seeing native AI on car tuning products....

Holdfast

AI assisted mega log viewer? Interesting.

Skeese

iTrader: (11)

I'm not sure I like the idea of AI being involved in tuning...I'm afraid it could end up being a bandaid that is used to cover bad tuning, kinda like how so many people have misapplied closed loop and 'autotune' features to shape a map. I don't think there is any real replacement for tuning a map to run on target based on averages over a variety of logged driving conditions, then using a fast and accurate closed loop PID to cover from minor variances from the baseline. We need more understanding of the baseline process, not more tools that make it seem like you can skip that portion and have it magically done for you. I could be wrong, but that would be my thought.