WTF... Screwed out of $4000!! anyone have any advice?
 

Okay, for over a month my FD had just been sitting while I saved up some money to have the engine rebuilt and a little tunning done. I did some research on the local rotary shops and found the closest was in Bloomington Indiana - J and H Racing. Everything I've heard and read were always good about J&H, so I took it there when I rounded up enough money. I talked to John, who works with his wife Hilary, and he seemed like a really good guy. I asked him to do a rebuild, street port, install a Haltech and a new fuel pump, and a dyno tuning and he said he'd give me a 2 year/24k warranty. He had me pay for most of it up front because he said he'd had a lot of people who just didn't pay. So I wrote him a check and a week later I called him to see how he was doing. He said that he was just getting ready to crack the engine and he'd give me a call once he did and let me know how it was and if my housings were bad. A week or so went by and he didn't call so I called him and he didn't answer. I tried calling him the next day... he didn't answer. The next day my car shows up at my house ON A TOW TRUCK! I talked to the tow guy and he said "Yeah, I guess J&H went out of business and he just told me to tow all the cars in his garage to their respective addresses..." So I asked if he did any work at all to my car, and the tow guy said he didn't know, but he knew the car wasnt running... So I assumed nothing had been done. I looked the car over and found that nothing had been done except my ECU totally unplugged and what looked like the prep work for the haltech install... but no haltech. So now I'm out nearly 4 grand and have a non-working FD, no money to fix it AGAIN, and bills for school starting to come in... John shut off his phone, both house and work so I can't even get ahold of him to bitch at him or try to work something out. I really don't know what to do short of pressing a law suit... Does anybody here know John or anything about the situation?!? I have a guy who works in a credit bureau that says he can get his address if I have his last name... GAHHHHHH!!!! ALL I WANT IS MY FCKING CAR FIXED DAMMIT!

Yeah... you better get to court ASAP. I don't know if the amount is too large for small claims court in your area or not. He may declare bankruptcy and then you'll be screwed. But hurry up and file your lawsuit so that you're first in line for any money awarded.

Thats sucks. I suggest that you contact the local police.

:eek:

Holy shit thats a tough break. I really dont know how youd go about tryign to get your money back or get work done for it, but I'd go find out about bankruptsy law, fraud, etc.

Basically, all I'd say is find out what you can do about it and talk to a lawyer *NOW* if you can afford the time and money to do so... and ouch, sorry to hear that.

That's what I thought would have been the best bet, but Bloomington police told me its a 'civil issue.'

Dude - I would call the police ASAP. The guy took your money and did not do a THING. That is stealing! I am sure a police detective might want to look closer at this one.

It's not a civil issue, because he basically stole your money. Go downtown, to the business records office. You will have to do a little research, but you can find the owner of the businesses name, mailing address, blah blah there. Then, show up at his house with a bat and get your 4 grand back. Thats not even right. Going out of business doest just sneak up on you, he knew he was going out when he took your money. Not right.

Holy crap, I hate reading about stuff like this! You think you find a reputable rotary garage, and the shit goes tits up or the owner screws you over. I would kill the S.O.B!!!

Seriously though see if you have any connections to an attorney through family or friends. This way you can get some legal advice without being charged an arm and a leg. Also, don't wait too long as some states have statutes that protect a person/business if enough time elapses, not to mention a bk. Good luck.

Yeah, that's great advice. Then he has you arrested for assault and you'll be spending money you don't have getting out of jail.

Go to small claims court and start a suit against his company. It's a long shot. Not to burst your bubble but you probably just lost your money. You can't peirce the corporate veil as far as i know.

ouch! take that asshole to court. Where abouts are you located in illinois??

State Attorney Generals Office.....they love these type of complaints......

I second that. I would seek legal council as well.

I'm not the business expert, but I do have some knowledge of business and business law (Accounting/Finance degree). I think you can probably get your money back. It really depends on the situation. If he created his business as some sort of sole proprietorship or partnership, his liability is unlimited. Even if his business goes under, he is personally responsible to pay off any company debt/loans/leases/etc. If his business is created as some sort of corporation (unlikely), the corporation is a separate entity and he is liable only up to his ownership interest (his equity in the business). Keep in mind that there are many different types of partnerships and corporations. You can probably do your own research on the extent of his liability.

However, if as a result of the business bankruptcy, he has to declare personal bankrupty you're out of luck. If someone declaring personal bankruptcy owes money, they will be able to "shrug off" any creditors after going through bankruptcy court.

*keep in mind that you should verify the information I posted above & not take it as cold hard facts ;)

did you get anything in writing ? Contract or promisary note? If not I feel for you... Same thing happened to me but I have a promisary note. Am about to go to court. Good luck! I feel your pain..

Not to be mean, but that is why I only give a small percentage up front. If the business doesnt like it, I go elsewhere. I may be used to my friends at dealerships and local shops, but I have never had to pay in full up front. Ever.

If he had a legit biz license then you should be able to take him to court and at least get part of your money back. For that much money, you def should consult a lawyer.

1) Cops. Don't take no for an answer from them. If you push hard enough, you'll get results.

2) Get a lawyer. Sue for your money back PLUS court expenses, lawyer fees, time lost, blah blah. Plus, a lawyer will tell you exactly what you need to do, when, how, and how fast to preserve your rights.

I know it's too late but...

3) NEVER pay for ANYTHING up front. Payment is ALWAYS upon receipt of work performed. Only time I pay for anything up front is when I know the ppl I'm dealing w/ well (like Chuck from RE).

4) NEVER pay by cash or check. If things turn sour, you're on your own. ALWAYS PAY BY CREDIT CARD PEOPLE. ALWAYS. Work your credit so you get a (real) platinum card. That means you have ZERO liability. It works WONDERS. You pretty much ALWAYS get your money back.

That said, I wish you the best...and hopefully you'll get your work done or money back ASAP.

~Ramy

Damn DUDE! thats sucks ass! All i can tell you is I know how you feel i have been scammed before and it sucks whether its 100 buck or a million bucks. I pray for your sanity i know i would go nuts over this:(

So youre recommending credit cards? LOL, I always figured it was better to do it in cash.... but now I can see why someone might fuck ya over. Damn shame they'll never teach this in highschool, god knows we need more dorks to get sucked into debt to keep the economy running. Better start taking out some $500 dollar loans and paying it off month by month to inflate my credit :rolleyes:

I'm damn sure not paying up front EVER after seeing this happen! Jesus christ, this is a total crock.

I am crying for you man, that really blowz, sorry to hear.

Yes I'm recommending credit cards. Sorry, I didn't think I needed to qualify my statement. You should only have a credit card if you know how to manage money responsibly. I figured if you still own an FD and can still afford dinner every night, , you HAVE to know how to manage money lol.

And no, I'm not advocating to charge up your card to high hell and buy anything and everything when you can't afford it. You should only buy that which you can afford. The diff is, instead of making the transaction in cash, put it on your card, and pay the cash to your credit card company. That way, when something happens, you can still get your money back.

Oh, and I don't have loans and what not, and I have EXCELLENT credit. The reason? I started early. Got a card and used it responsibly from when I was young. And I NEVER EVER make late payments. In fact, I always pay everything in full every month, unless it's a 0% APR card I'm getting for a large purchase. Once you start building a relationship w/ a credit card company, they'll start throwing credit your way. They'll love you, and you'll love 'em back when they give you your money back when you get suckered (I've gotten prob $4K back from them in the past two years alone)

I would welcome correction from any lawyers out there, and the wording of statutes and case law vary from state to state.... but before the police can get involved, it has to be a criminal matter, as opposed to a simple breach (civil matter). For that to happen, (IMHO) there would have to be a pattern of behavior that would reflect criminal intent . A obvious example would be a patter of behavior by the shop owner that suggests fraud. Like intentionally taking your money and the money of at least a few others with no intention of doing the work and knowing that no work will ever be done. This is probably not going to be very easy with a pending bankruptcy.
sillinous, do you still have a way to get in touch with the tow truck driver? He might be able to put you in contact with a few other 'victims' from the shop. You may have a better chance of getting something done together. Just a thought. Sorry to hear this happen. Good luck.

all i can say is pray about it ask god to help you, if you have someone that works for a phone company you can get his name by the phone number that you have just a lil note to help

Sounds like you need Dog The Bounty Hunter. He'll make those phone calls for you and hunt him down. All of this without using guns or weapons. He may not have a mallet but he'll sure bring the mullet!

yeah that was all setup
i bet the guy knew it was going out of business weeks ago
hes just a bastard that wants to take everyone down with him

Yeah, whatever. In a perfect world, this is what you do, you get reimbursed for all your expenses, and go back to square one - not!

Fact is, the proprietor of J&H Racing made some bad business decisions, couldn't cover his expenses, and unfortunately, had to go under. *If* the money was there, the customers would be taken care of, but it isn't. If J&H files for bankruptcy, the best anyone can do is get in line and wait, and divy up what funds are left over, assuming there's anything left.

Sorry to hear about the bad luck, "sillinous", but you *did* get screwed. :(

FDNewbie - well, damn, thats some food for thought.

Personally, I've always been weary of credit cards. But, hey, if you work your way up to get 0% APR and get zero liability, its pretty damn useful for cases like this, huh. I am still young so I guess I better think about how to best go about taking the plunge, but I'm definitely going to manage it carefully.

Starting outs a bitch, but you gotta start somewhere, LOL.

Gil, I know you're 100% right that's the ideal situation. Still can't hurt to shoot for it. Plus I think the 2nd part of that statement still holds: a lawyer would know what the steps and consequences of filing for bankruptcy are, and instead of him taking our speculation, he can get hard facts telling him you have this many days to file for this, or we can go after these assets he has etc etc. Hopefully he can get SOMETHING man. Hopefully.

Nihilanthic, it's like the Chase commercials. Just cuz you have the power doesn't mean you should use it. Use it VERY carefully. I did it real simply. I had a spending budget per month. Instead of going to the bank (which was damn near impossible, since it would close at 3 or so, and I got outta class at 4 or 5), I'd pay for EVERYTHING on credit card, and kept receipts like a mofo. Added up what was spent each day, keeping tabs of how much money I had left to spend, etc. Come the end of the month, you just pay them w/ a check. End of story.

Of course, in the beginning, you can cheat a little by having your parents buy something big every now and then on your card, and them paying it off. The credit card company doesn't know the diff...all they see is that you can handle large purchases, and pay it in full, on time ;) Within 6 months, they'll prob. re-evaluate your credit limit, and increase it.

But yea...just be careful. Applying for cards and getting rejected hurts your credit. Paying late hurts your credit. Having TOO MUCH credit (or too many cards) hurts your credit. Bottom line, you gotta know what you're doing, your it'll hurt you too. But I don't wanna get into this too much and take away from this guy's thread. Moral of the story is, he had the cash (he wrote a check, right?) In the future, don't write that check. Pay by credit card. Then write the check to your credit card. That way, if/when you get suckered, you just cry to your credit card company, and they'll give you your money back. Sometimes they just refund you...other times they'll actually contact the other party's bank, and in a straight-up hostile takeover manner, they'll seize the funds from his bank account LOL. I only know that because they did that w/ $1000 I got suckered out of, and the guy disappeared. They pulled it from his bank account, w/o requiring his authorization, because I had documentation proving I had gotten scammed ;)

i didn't read the whole thread, but has anyone suggested going to your bank and placing a stop payment on the check?

i don't know your banks policies, but my bank will honor a stop payment even after the check has been cashed... they suck the money from his bank, and let him settle up on his end.

it may or may not work in your exact case, but it's definately worth a trip to the bank to find out!

:eek: What bank is THIS?! That's a double-edged sword btw...

there is your answer folks. I don't mean to be a pessimist, but I think your chances of getting the $4k back are 1 out of 10. If he didn't have the balls to call you and let you know what is up, and that your car is on its way back, he sure as hell doesn't have the balls or money to hand back. He knew his place was going down the shitter...he knows he is taking money...he knows he is going to get away with it.

If he has nothing...how is suing going to get it? Can;t take what people don't have.

You can't go after personal assets? I'm sure the guy owns SOMETHING... car, home, business, etc. Or is there a boundary between personal property and business property?

This is the best advice in this thread. Sorry about your misfortune but he will get whats coming to him, someway, somehow

I cannot tell you the exact verbage because I do not know it...but I am aware that depending on the business type, etc., no you cannot go after his house, etc. In fact, under bankruptcy each person is still allowed one home, one car, a specific amount of cash, certain amount of salary, etc. etc.

Only thing that can be done is garnish his future wages, which even that has a % cap and if he has a lot of debt, it will be pennies getting paid back compared to the sum owed and the big creditors will get first dibs.

I hate it for you. Been there but not quite as bad. I got an estimate for a new engine, paid half for it and then he almost tripled the cost in the end. He never let me know what was going on and it took him 10 months to fix it. He also locked up my 3rd gen and refused to let me have it for over a year. Everytime I asked, he had an excuse. Get a lawyer. I used a pre-paid legal service to help get my stuff back.

www.prepaidlegal.com

It's like $325 but they took care of all the paperwork I needed.

Good luck!

ah shit. The situation (school, etc.) you're in compunds the problem. That just sucks man. I feel for ya and good luck with this!

call bank to stop payment on check
notify bank of check fraud
look any invoice or contract for work on car
have a copy of check paid to business
document dates of events, when paid, no response, when got car back
make a list of how much you suffered in losses because of this
file a complaint with better business bureau BBB to have it documented
file a police report against business for grand theft
contact your local state attorney general
call your local bar association for referral on a good attorney
file a complaint with superior court to sue business/him/house/car
for embezzlement, grand theft, larceny, extortion, fraudulent misrepresentation, breach of contract, intensional infliction of emotional distress, loss of use, gross negligence and whatever else you can think of. good luck.

Man that totally sucks! I hate hearing crap like this!

^^^I agree!

The same thing happened to me when rotormotorsports.com folded after I ordered $2500 worth of stuff. Fortunately I paid by VISA so when I found out that they closed I just called the credit card company and told them the situation and they started on the paper work. To make a long story short VISA had my money back in 6 weeks (they had to investigate the alligations) and I learned my lesson. So I know your pain. Hopefully you can get some of your money back. You can't trust anyone anymore.

R.K.

PLEASE just take a trip down to the bank. you might go home a happy man.
and even if you don't, at least you tried.

when you come in with a problem like this, they're happy to help out most of the time.

If you wrote him a check maybe there is a chance that he hasnt cashed it yet. Cant you go to the bank and void the check or something?

damn that sucks man, sorry to hear

usually, the shops around here take the payment AFTER the car is done..now i know why he wanted the downpayment...to screw you!!

but damn, this is def not a civil case, he stole money from you and thats a criminal act, so its a criminal case (or something along those terms, but def not a civil case)..

Wow, that SUCKS DUDE@! I'm really sorry to hear that you got ripped off.

As a banker I can tell you once the check is written handed over to another party and cashed..., your chances of getting it back is nil. But if the check has not been cashed you can file a stop payment immediately with your bank for a small fee. Do some checking on his business, maybe you got lucky and he is a sole prop., and not a corportation.
Also, if you can prove in court that this person intended to, or was setting up to, fold his business prior to taking on your rebuild you might be in a more favorable position.
Consult an attorney.

You said 'money.'

Does this mean you paid him with cash? Or a credit card. If a credit card, file a claim with the CC company ASAP, you should get your money back.

crazyrx7
 

Not to add more injury to this already tragic tale, but when did rotormotorsports.com close???

My buddy just sent his motor over there to have some parts coated, although its been about 3 months. The motor blew a bearing after 2 months, and a very observant break in period, where the boost gauge was watched exclusively. The builder of the motor is potentially blaming a malfunctioning oil pump (which was also coated). How coating it would make it ineffective has yet to be explained. The new rebuild has not been done yet, so I don't know who will pay for it. Anyone have problems after having their oil pump coated??? The rotors, were also coated, and the bearings were brand new.

I like how many people that live in other states have knowledge about other state laws.

I'm not even going to venture in the "call the cops" story.

The shop guy had the car towed back to his house. He could have parted it out and sold it as a chop shop.

This is a civil matter, not a criminal matter. It doesn't take a lawyer to see that.

Furthermore, if the shop was incorporated, I would say "good luck" in getting ur money back.

I don't want to sound unsympathetic, but this shows that FD's are not for just everyone.

If u have to pay others to work on the car, u better have a good job to support this lifestyle since it's as expensive to raise a kid.

The situation really sucks. Batman is right though retrieveing money from an incorporated entity is near to impossible. If your in Illinois you should have given A-spec a call, they do high quality work. But I guess its too late for that.

It does cost $$ to incorporate.

Even if he didn't, lost the court case, it will be a whole other matter in collecting the $$$$$.

U don't want to know, it might make u more piss off and join the dark force.