i use to be a huge fan of running high boost on straight pump gas (93 here). started in my blow-thru carb days. i was running as high as 22psi on turbos that lost their efficiency at 12psi hahahaha. afr's were low in the 10's and i used locked distributors set to around 12*. sure it was a blast but not for long. i never knocked, detonated, pinged, or whatever.... but the engines just kept failing.

i work at Rotorsports and we've been around a good while and our owner has been in the biz for welllll over 20+ years. we've been apart of some insanely wild setups and there's one thing we never recommend and thats running high boost on pump gas. haha, YES it can be done.

we currently have an FD at the shop now we're doing some maintenence on that we built the engine for around 3 years ago. it's mainly used for the street but it see's alot of drag strip time. Street ported, apexi turbo setup, supporting mods, pfc, etc.... we have him set at 20psi and he's only using 93 octane pump gas. we have pushed him against this but it's what he insists on and we came to terms LOL. the car does run smooth but to get it there we sacrificed alot of power.

Bryan (owner of our shop) has done many maaany high boost setups on pump gas including a few of his own cars and we have many trophies showing what typically happens. Tuning does play a factor up to a point where you fall to the mercy of luck. we've done high 400rwhp setups using pump but even so it's never something i ever recommend. it's just too risky. of those high 400hp pump gas engines i'm sure we've rebuilt a good bit hahaha. and of course we never push jack shit without a good ecu, more than enough fuel to support, etc...

we take pride in building reliable fast setups and that normally includes using a better fuel for higher boost. on my personal half-bridge high compression TII i will be using methanol injection because i can't justify spending over 100 bucks to fill my tank with c16 every weekend and i just don't trust pump gas for reliable high horsepower.

Howard seems to be avoiding this "evil sister" thread :)

"That's why I call running mixtures like 10.8:1 at 1+bar of boost on pump gas a "hack job". With the right kind of fuel for the loads the motor will be under, there's absolutely no reason in the world to do that. It doesn't buy reliability. The best it'll do is possibly turn the knob counter-clockwise a bit on that ticking time bomb"

I cant get angry anymore with you, nor will I insult you.

Did you realize Aviation Gasoline has two ratings? 100/130LL do you know what this means?

Its the fuels normal mixture knock value and its rich knock value. Engineers know this stuff Brian.... Your enthusiasm for your newly founded Methanol injection does not change history or physics via an internet forum you know?

Its a common known fact that increasing fuel mixture strength supresses the onset of knock (up to 50% rich over stoich is usefull *proven by engineers* & not disproven by internet hero's and their opinions!) its only used by every single vehicle manufacturer around the globe who produce turbocharged OEM cars FFS. Get a grip man realy. Stop insulting professionals in this field, your starting to remind me of Corky Bell !

Fuel richness
*I use it
*Other professional tuners use it
*Aviation use it
*OEM car manufaturesrs use it
*F1 in turbo era with mega dollar fuel used it
*Professional drag racers that hold world records use it

V's your quote above?

I think you need a reality check ;)

Some facts v's opinions

BMEP (thats power for you Brian?)

168psi (no det, normal fuel mixture limit)
237psi (no det, very rich fuel mixture 1.5 times richer) *hack job as done by everyone inthe world that has qualifications in this area*

Thats a 41% increase in power, far from a marginal gain *as you always state in your opinions*

Water injection added to above

BMEP
290psi (no det and fuel richness set back to 1.2 times over normal limit)

Thats a 72% increase in power over normal safe limits on pump fuel & no hack job fuel mixture settings

You will find this data on page 156 Ricardo, H & Hempson, J, The High Speed Internal Combustion Engine