What's wrong with (should I buy) this RX7?
 

This is probably my last chance to own a RX7 cause this seems to be the last semi-decent RX7 in the country (Turkey). We probably have 5 or 6 FD RX7's in total in the country and I can say all of them had hard lifes.

The one I found is 94 model and looks clean. It doesn't have sunroof or bose stereo so I'm assuming it's the entry model. It has 30k miles on the clock and the dashboard, steering, seat trim etc. are all in good condition. But......

....... the owner didn't tell me on the phone that the engine was replaced with a new engine from Mazda (30k miles and new engine??) and also something else wrong with it mechanically. So when I went to have a look at it today he told me there is something wrong with a sensor or ecu or something. Apparently the car drives but 2nd turbo doesn't kick in or throttle on/off jerkyness kind problem. I asked him which sensor is not working or what exactly is wrong with the car but he couldn't tell me cause I don't think he knows either (or he's hiding something). He's a young kid with 4 cars.

We will take the car to a mechanic who claims to be a "rotary specialist" on Tuesday (how can you be a rotary specialist when there is 5 FD and maybe 10-20 FC in the country I don't know).

I'm no expert but I think the problem has to do with the complicated twin turbo system, sensors, cables etc. I really want a FD RX7 and I know they are high maintenance cars but I don't want a total money pit either so should I go for this RX7 as long the engine and the rest is in OK condition?

An rx7 would be a commitment. Things WILL go wrong. Since it's doubtful anyone in your area will know what to do when that happens, that means YOU will have to fix them. With this and other forums you can pretty much do anything that needs to be done to fix the car, but you will have to put in a LOT of time. If you are not already mechanically inclined it will take a lot more work, but is probably doable if you are willing to put forth the effort. It will probably also cost you a lot of money too. If you are thinking of having it as your only source of transportation, thats a horrible idea. While you can daily drive an rx7, it makes more sense as a weekend car. And you will definitely want a backup car.

As far as the engine, you need to do a compression test to find out its condition. If these engines aren't cared for, having the engine replaced at 30k is completely believable. If you do buy the car, you WILL have to replace/rebuild the engine at some point. My car is on it's 3rd engine now (my second) with 115000 miles on the clock.

The turbo's are complicated and that cars problem is most likely somewhere in the rats nest, either a split hose, bad solenoid, or broken check valve. There are writeups and diagrams that will help diagnose, but it will take work. Or you can go single turbo or non sequential to simplify the car. Both will take work and money single more so then non seq.

If the car is throwing a check engine light then you should pull the codes and find out what they are. Just looked and I guess the non-US cars dont have check engine lights, but here is information on checking them on non-US models https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-gen-archives-73/there-any-chance-read-ecu-codes-without-ecl-238994/

^^Good advice right there. If you yourself are not pretty mechanically sound than I would not recommend you purchase an RX7 given your situation. It is an absolute JOY of a car to own, but definitely requires you to be faithful with routine maintenance and when problems go wrong it will need YOU to do most all of the trouble shooting at work.. This board is a great tool and resource, but if you do not like figuring out problems and working on the car yourself then it is definitely not the car for you.

This one sounds just like it was mentioned above, problem in the vac lines, solenoids, or related parts. It is hard to say without more info.

Good luck with your decision.

Thanks to both of you for great advice. First of all I'd like to have the RX7 as DD but I have other cars so I don't have to. I have previously owned cars like MR2 Turbo, Galant VR4 and bikes like ZX-10R, all were modified to certain extent and I've done some of the work myself but not much. It's not that I can't do it if I tried to but I never had much time so I always preferred to pay a shop to do it.

If I buy the car I plan to do mods like single GT35R kit etc. eventually but right now I can't. I know this forum have lots of useful information so I'm just thinking if I can find out possible causes for problems, charts, technical info etc. from this forum and internet and then maybe I can take this info to a skilled mechanic to do the troubleshooting for me when things go wrong.

Anyway I'm kind of confused right now cause I'm in a heart vs. brain state but Tuesday should clear things a bit, we will go for a long drive in the car and I'll have the car inspected properly. I guess as long as the bodywork is straight no accidents interior trim as 30k mile car should have etc. then I'll pull the trigger and attack the rats nest.

Quite nearly every problem that can/has happened to an RX7 you should be able to find info or help with on this forum.. Always try searching first then just ask. 99% of the time if you can search properly (sometimes things can be tricky to find) it has already been discussed.

30K cars can have issues too. Do not forget that even though it only have 30k on the clock, the car is 15 years old and things will just wear out and go bad.

A single turbo mod is a good one and addresses several heat issues BUT it is expensive (though it does not sound like you are hurting for money) and several supporting mods are needed to support the turbo kit.

Like mentioned above search on here as to how a compression test should be performed and have that done on the day of the drive. This will tell you about the health of the engine.

Are you going to buy the car with cash or get a loan? That makes a difference.

FD's have what I call the "Rx-7 car payment." Averaged out, figure $200-$400 a month in USD for the car to fix broken interior, put new tires on it, fix stupid electrical problems, do maintainance, replace a motor, etc. Now that might work out to almost $0 for 5 or 6 months and then suddenly thousands. So you have to start socking money away. If you take it to a shop, especially a no-name but supposed "expert" shop, it mightl get a lot more expensive--especially if they screw stuff up and you end up redoing things yourself later.

one of three things will likely happen:

1) you keep paying out the ass for somebody to work on it, and there's a significant chance that person is nowhere near the "expert" they claim to be

2) you start doing all the work on it and quickly become WAY better at working on cars and understanding how they work, by necessity

3) you give up and sell the car within a year or two

To a lot of people though it's worth the bullshit. Especially when you drive the thing and people start taking pictures like they just saw a Ferrari Enzo or something. And people at gas stations keep asking you to sell it to them etc..

Checking the codes is easier on a US version too since it has the check engine light. You have to jumper 2 pins in the diagnostic port in the engine bay. I "think" they are TEN and GRD if I remember correctly. A search would pull it up for sure. Then you count the blinks on the CEL, there is a list for what the code numbers mean somewhere here too.

all the codes are in the Service Highlights and workshop manual from the sticky at the top of this section of the forum

Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 13:27:56 -0700
From: "Nowhere Man" (rx7@otf.cyber-west.com)

You can actually check the code yourself following these sneaky instructions. I list the meaning of the codes after these instructions.

First, at the diagnostic plug, located near the battery under the hood, short the TEN connector to a ground connector. I use:

|------|
\/ |
o o @ o |
o o o o o o o |
o o o o o o |
|---------|
\/
o o @ o o o
o o

Diagnostics Connector
o=pins
@=pins I use for the short
Once connected, turn ignition to ON. I've forgotten the order the digits flash, but here's the definition:

Second digit of service code (ones position)=number of times the check engine light illuminates for 0.4 seconds.

First digit of service code (tens position)=number of times the check engine light illuminates for 1.2 seconds.

Delay between codes is 4.0 seconds.

In other words, one long flash, followed by 5 short flashes (or 5 short flashes followed by one long flash, I can't remember the order) means a code 15. This will repeat again after 4 seconds (or, if your car is really screwed up, a different code will follow).

The ECU will cycle through all the service codes. After reach the last service code the ECU will go back to the first service code and repeat the cycle until the ignition is turned OFF. I wouldn't suggest you do this until the dealer has tried to fix your problem, but you can clear service codes:

Disconnect the negative battery cable. Wait at least 20 seconds then depress the brake pedal.

Reconnect the negative battery cable. Codes should be cleared. If not, a problem may still exist.

The codes are:

02 - Crank angle sensor (NE signal)
03 - Crank angle sensor (G signal)
05 - Knock sensor
06 - Speedometer sensor
09 - Water thermosensor
11 - Intake air themosensor
12 - Throttle sensor (full range)
13 - Pressure sensor
14 - Atmospheric pressure sensor (in ECU)
15 - Oxygen sensor
16 - EGR valve (California only)
17 - Feedback system
18 - Throttle sensor (narrow range)
20 - Metering oil pump position sensor
23 - Fuel thermosensor
25 - Solenoid valve (pressure regulator control)
26 - Metering oil pump (stepping motor)
27 - Metering oil pump
28 - Solenoid valve (EGR)
30 - Solenoid valve (split air bypass)
32 - Solenoid valve (relief 1)
32 - Solenoid valve (switching)
33 - Solenoid valve (port air bypass)
34 - Solenoid valve (idle speed control)
37 - Metering oil pump
38 - Solenoid valve (accelerated warm up system)
39 - Solenoid valve (relief 2)
40 - Solenoid valve (purge control)
42 - Solenoid valve (turbo precontrol)
43 - Solenoid valve (wastegate control)
44 - Solenoid valve (turbo control)
45 - Solenoid valve (charge control)
46 - Solenoid valve (charge relief)
50 - Solenoid valve (double throttle control)
51 - Fuel pump relay
54 - Air pump relay
71 - Injector (front secondary)
73 - Injector (rear secondary)
76 - Slip lock up off signal
77 - Torque reduced signal


I made it even easier for you. the "picture" doesn't show up right when I pasted so follow this link http://www.fd3s.net/engine_codes.html

+1


Hattori Hanzo,

If they are that rare and you agree with that price you should go for it. Because what you have listed are everyday issues with this car.

GVR4s represent! If you're accustomed to maintaining one of those, there's nothing you won't be able to learn on an FD ;)

Thanks a lot guys, you guys are making me feel confident about buying this car.

And a quick update: I went to the "rotary expert" mechanic today to meet and talk to him before I take the car and its owner there. He's no more dealing with rotaries due to lack of rotaries in the country but instead he's now doing automatic transmission rebuilds etc. Anyway he was positive about it, he said he is willing to work with me on sorting the problems out on the car but also warned me about what I'm about to get myself into. He told me similar things that you guys have told me so my first impression of him was that he's an honest person. He wasn't like ohh sick brooo or it's cool man, c'mon buy it so it's more business for me, show me the money...... :D

I'm waiting for a call from the owner of the car to arrange time to take the car to the mechanic. The mechanic told me he'll do a compression test and I will try to find out the throttle/turbo problem with the codes you guys have just given.

Both my MR2 Turbo and GVR4 have been problem-free. My Galant VR4 had 264.000kms on its original engine but I had 2 gearbox rebuilds.

Here are some pics of mods I've done to some of my cars: http://www.cardomain.com/ride/760438

Guys I'll probably forget about this RX7. The owner is acting kind of suspicious which I don't like. I looked at the car on Sunday and we agreed to take the car to my mechanic for inspection on Tuesday. I called him on Monday to confirm the meeting time on Tuesday, he asked me where I want to take the car to I told to my mechanic who's 40-50km away from where he is, he told me why don't we take it to somewhere nearby, I told him I'm not going to buy the car without knowing or at least having an idea about what might be wrong with the car so I want to take it to my mechanic by this stage I was kinda annoyed that he was trying to tell me where I should take the car and trying to beat around the bush so I told him if it's a problem I'll even pay for petrol, he was like errr umm ok etc. unwillingly, and told me he'll call me on Monday night to tell me what time to meet on Tuesday but never called. He didn't call on Tuesday either.

This makes me think there is a bigger problem then he tells me there is. I noticed a big water bottle in his car, maybe his car has overheating issues who knows. All I know is I made it clear to him that I will not buy this car without knowing what I'm getting into.

Anyway I really want the car but I don't like the attitude and all the mystery. If you're making a sale you should help the buyer feel comfortable with his purchase and be cooperative. He may care or not but this will end up costing him few more months to sell that car I think, considering it's a 15yo car with no spare parts available in the country and one of the only 3-4 in the country and petrol here is like us$10 per gallon :)

I might but probably won't give it one more shot tomorrow or consider this as a sign to not buy that car and look for something like RX8 (plenty in the country) + turbo kit, although I know it'll never be as satisfying as a RX7 :(

$10 per gallon? Wow.

The owner finally called me today, I will have the car inspected in the next 2-3 days.

good luck with the inspection. My impression is the same as yours. Sellers that act like that are typically hiding things. Be VERY careful, he now has had a few days to maybe bandaid items to try and make the trip. Really if there are only the problems you described earlier then they should not be too hard to sort out. With a lil help from ppl on here and a lot of effort and wrenching by you, I bet we could have that car running well in a week or two (communication on the web is a bit slower than real life). If you want, grab your video camera and shoot a lot of detailed footage, post it on here and let us all take a look at it.

It is quite possible it has a coolant seal problem. Especially since you mentioned the water bottle. If that's the case then it would need a rebuild soon. Low/no compression and water seal failures are the 2 main types of problems requiring a rebuild for a rotary.

If you go into it expecting that you will quite possibly need to have the engine rebuilt very soon, and you're okay with that then there isn't much else that could be in the way. These engines wear out pretty much by design, so replacing the engine can not be a hang up if you plan on owning one.

I didn't even buy the car yet and I already don't know what I'd do without you guys lol :icon_tup: We will do a compression test. If that comes out good, does that mean the car doesn't have coolant seal problem? I'll probably find this in FAQ but since I'm here, what's the ideal compression test number and what's the minimum that I should be ok with and buy the car?

Btw I found a FD3S engine and a gearbox for $2000 which I'm considering buying, I don't know the condition but I thought I can use it for spare parts or to have it built on the side. I will post pics of the car and spare engine in 5 minutes.

- block
- twin turbos
- intake manifold
- exhaust manifold
- boost sensor
- ignitor chip
- uncut wiring harness
- ECU
- 5 speed transmission
- complete clutch & flywheel assembly
- injectors
- A/C compressor
alternator
starter
power steering pump
all sensors...
INTERCOOLER
CONWERSION KIT
Front Sub Frame,
Transmission Brace,
Power Plant Frame,
Motor Mount Brackets,
Drive Shaft,
Motor Mounts
Shifter Extension* (core required)

http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/9...841672154u.jpg
http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/8...8416721ptl.jpg
http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/230...8416721en7.jpg
http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/944/big18416721xk2.jpg
http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/9...8416721lj8.jpg

http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/2...7102r5f.th.jpg
http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/9...7102a9h.th.jpg
http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/743...71026p2.th.jpg
http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/3...7102mph.th.jpg

The main thing to look for in the compression test is 3 even bounces on each rotor. If using a normal piston testor you will have to hold the pressure release or remove it to view the pulses. Anything in the 115 to 120 area is like new. Under 90 is getting pretty low. If you see only one bounce that indicates a blown apex seal. And no a compression test wont tell you if the coolant seal is blown. If it's burning coolant, you see small bubbles under the coolant cap when the engine is running or if it's mysteriously losing coolant all can indicate a coolant issue. Having a spare engine to rebuild and have extra parts isn't a bad idea at all.

Update: Today we took the car to the service to have it checked and:

- Before the owner mentioned something like 2nd turbo not kicking in or jerky throttle on/off. Well we went for a test drive and it feels like a fuel cut. The car can go up to high speeds no problem but every now and then there is this fuel cut kind of abrubtness, it mostly happens when he steps on it, it momentarily pauses and keeps going again, I don't know what it is, it might actually be a fuel cut I don't know.

- I don't know what the part is called in english but right link/trail arm/joint or whatever it is called is making a clunking noise during stop and go traffic in throttle on off situation.

- There was oil under and around the oil sump, the owner reckons he overfilled and spilled, the guys at the service could not find an exact spot where it's leaking from but I'm not worried that much because I will be buying a spare engine and gearbox.

- There are other small problems like glove box handle/button is broken so I couldn't open the glovebox, right side inside door handle is broken, he says cause his passangers keep pulling it when he's going sideways etc. but overall the car has not been modified and returned back to stock, all parts are oem.

Compression test results are: Rotor 1: 8.98bar Rotor 2: 8.32bar

Anyway I put a deposit on the car, planning to purchase next week when the owner fixes some registration and smoglike issues.

What do you guys think?

mine used to do that when I first started modding with the stock ECU. I lowered my boost from 11 psi to 10 PSI max and it stopped occuring. Not really sure what it was, I thought it was ignition break up but I suggest you don't keep doing it once you get the car. Get an ACCURATE boost gauge and monitor the boost level, if you are indeed over bossting make the necessary steps to remedy the situation.

Fuel cut is different. The best way to describe it is: picture you are going 100% on the throttle and all of the sudden you take your foot completely of the gas (except your foot is on the gas :lol:). That's fuel cut.

Sound like your pillow balls and EXTREMELY common issue. $300 USD from Malloy mazda will fix that issue.

oil leaking =/ new engine lol. He could be telling the truth or it could be a component issue. Leaks that I have experienced range from: blow by from the turbos, OMP leaking, old pan. It's not uncommon for FD to spring a leak.

Gove box handle broken also another common issue, mine broke as well so I bought 2 :D. The broken inside passenger door handle is very common as well. Mine is broken and I don't drive like a madman so I know passengers didn't break it while holding on for their life. Mine broke from age + constant closing of the door. Just one of those things that happens when materials used are cheap plastic.

Expect your drivers side window switch go out at some point as well.. Not the electrical part but the plastic part of the switch... But it does not matter what actually breaks because you end up buying the whole assembly anyway lol IIRC $150 from mallow mazda. Oh yeah check the headlight covers for cracks around the mounting points. They also tend to crack and eventually completely break off while driving and of course your cover goes flying... Luckily they aren't that expensive. When I bought mine they were $65 USD.

The car sounds decent to me. But it does not sound like anyone checked the boost response though. Meaning if it's working properly as in 10-8-10 pattern and if it's 100% stock is 10-8-10-8. Note that isn't a deal breaker by any means but just another issue with sequential setups.

Thanks for the help. Is that $300 for pair or each for pillow balls? You're right I think I meant boost cut cause my MR2 used to do something similar when I went over 14-15psi on stock ecu.

Not the headlight covers but under the bonnet where it meets the back of the headlight cover is an area covered with black plastic to stop the dust and water I guess. Those black curved plastics have rubber extensions, rubber extension for the right one is missing so I guess I'll have to buy new one of that too.

The $300 is for all six with dust caps. Most of us just go commando and replace them all since we are down there taking stuff apart. Plus what if we replace the wrong one or in a couple of months another one goes out? That's the reasoning of replacing them all at once.

But I'll tell you this my stuff didn't start breaking until I hit the 100K mile mark.