Walbro 450 Questions
 

I'm going to be running an EFR7670 (IWG) kit from Turblown very soon. I'm trying to lay the groundwork for the install and I'm starting with the fuel system. I'd like to be able to run E85 with a flex fuel sensor and I need to ensure my fuel delivery is sufficient. If I can get away with a single fuel pump I'd like to do that. A single pump failure on a single pump system will stop the engine but a single pump failure on a dual pump system will likely result in engine failure. I know I need to upgrade the wiring and upgrade fuel rail and the injectors to feed the beast....I'll take care of that.

Questions....

1. Will the Walbro 450 fit in the stock location? Aka: is this a drop in replacement?
2. Will the Walbro 450 flow enough fuel to support 450whp on E85?
3. Noise, I've not heard one of these....will I be able to hear it? Is it louder than stock?
4. I'm looking at the CJ kit with wiring. Is that all I'll need? https://cj-motorsports.com/products/walbro450

From what I understand the 450 is a drop-in pump that installs pretty easily. You will want to upgrade the fuel pump wiring for sure.

Any reason that you are going E85? You don't really need to for your power goals. E85 can be harsh on things, I've heard of it degrading/sticking injectors, etc. 93 octane and a good water/meth injection setup and you can make that power all day long. Also you wouldn't have to deal with all the other jazz - the E85 sensor, huge fuel injectors, multiple maps, etc.

Most any aftermarket fuel pump will be louder than stock. It will likely be quieter than your exhaust :). It's not going to be as loud as an external pump though.

Dale

Dale,
Good questions. The EFR7670 can barely get to the ~450whp mark but there's zero chance of that happening on pump gas. Thus, I need another way to reduce detonation. I have E85 in my area so I had wanted to run that with a FlexFuel sensor so the system would automatically adjust based on ethanol content. However, running meth or water injection would be fine by me to be honest. Is that simpler or more complex than E85? In addition to complexity, is the meth or water injection more expensive or cheaper?

Pump essentially drops in but you will need to cut the stock pickup back and use in-tank fuel hose to connect it. If you get the pump with the install kit it is included.
Not the prettiest solution but you can use a stainless steel hose clamp to secure the pump to the bracket,

Pump should flow enough for 450.

It isn't overly noisy but it is essential to upgrade the wiring to the pump and run a dedicated relay. I depin the stock connector and insert different pins to fit larger gauge wiring. The stock wiring will be overloaded and melt very quickly.

I would go with an 8374. I have yet to make over 400whp (mustang numbers) with a 7670. Just chokes too much up top.

I'll let other people chime in on the E85. I have heard of injectors locking up after a car sat with E85 in the rails, non-E85 rated fuel components (lines, O-rings) can weep or leak over time due to degradation from the alcohol.

You also need a Haltech or something to properly deal with the flex fuel sensor and set up multiple fuel maps. IMHO if you're not needing all that it's doing (like you're going for 600hp) it's a lot more complexity. Also you have to BIG TIME upsize injectors and fuel system since you need a lot more volume that you would of gas.

A water injection system, like the AEM setup, is reasonably priced and easy to install and set up. It only injects when you hit a certain amount of boost and it ramps up - I have mine start injecting at 8 psi, then it's full duty cycle at 14 psi. Cools down the intake charge big time and drops combustion temps. I pull fluid for the system from my windshield washer tank, I just use windshield washer fluid.

If the turbo you're looking at can barely make that number you either want to shoot for a lower number or upsize the turbo. There's no good reason to flog a turbo outside of its efficiency range, that just overheats the air and overspins the turbo. Or you may just flat not be able to get there, it may just choke out.

Dale

I know some of the older ID injectors would seize up from e85, believe they are fixed now.

IIRC ID1050x, ID1300, and ID1700 are E85 compatible. I know you can still run E85 with the other ID injectors, but the caveat is, you will need to run pump gas through the system after use and if you are planning to let the car sit for more than a week. I believe it may have to due with e85 corroding the injectors internals which causes to seize/lock up.

Walbro 450 is not a drop in. The pump outlet is 3/8, where as the pick up OD is 5/16. The filter it comes with can’t be used and it does not sit on the hanger bracket. I have seen far too many hack job installs to just let any of this go by unmentioned.

Agree with IRP and Banzai. Why not an 8374 on pump, not a 7670 on e85? It will be more difficult to reach the hp #s you are chasing and you will have to run much higher boost. The walbro's are not exactly a drop in, you have to cut the rubber isolator thing that supports the bottom of the pump a little bit, cut the pipe on the sending unit and clamp the supplied submersible hose to it, and you have to source your own strainer/filter, as the one that comes with the "install kit" is completely wrong. NBD on the filter though, I got one meant for a Lexus es300 from the auto parts store. $10 maybe. The walbros are very very quiet. Virtually silent compared to the supra pump I had previously. Heres my walbro 400 installed on stock hanger.
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...f9ed52db05.jpg

That's the info I was looking for. Thank you for chiming in.

Honestly, I'm not really "chasing" any power numbers. I have a goal in mind of what I want the power potential to be but I don't want to run around with that all the time. Realistically, I'd like the car to have the absolute best boost response possible; period. Power under the curve is going to be a hell of a lot more fun in 99% of the driving than those last extra ponies up top. I think a solid 400whp would be wonderful. If I could get CLOSE to that on pump I'd be damn happy. Then 430-450 on E85 just for fun sometimes would be a nice touch. So right now I'm starting with a 7670 and I want my car to be built in such a way that I could just swap out the turbo at a later time if I'm not happy with the top end.

Pump shown above looks like a 400. Its a little different.

I have a solution coming to make the 450 more of a drop in.. Give me a couple weeks to wrap it up.

You would be better off using the 525LPH hellcat pump, the biggest 400 series available. I usually see the 450LPH start to lose pump pressure around 430rwhp on full E85 blend.

Same fitment, but more flow.

I'd be VERY interested in this if it's cost effective. My engine rebuild will be late June so that matches my time frame.

What about noise? Any other drawbacks?

im close to doing my fuel system on my car as well, will be interested to see what you will have to offer.



I have stock port new REW with rx parts seals, and the 7670 EFR kit, I have a smic( similar to the pettit cool charge)
Still breaking in the engine at 8psi.
already ordered AEM water meth kit and the sakebomb euro tank, and pump brackets.
doing fuel system next.
still have the powerFC so will probably aim for around 14-17psi nothing too crazy. hoping to have safe intake temps with the water meth, to avoid having to go to a full V mount.

How so? I was under the impression they were dimensionally the same (400/450/485), just had a different wiring harness/pigtail and internals capable of sustained corn fuel. Yes that pic was of a 400 just for reference. I would be interested in a 450/485/hellcat kit that fits good and is all inclusive.

@IRPerformance that looks fantastic and is a perfect solution to what I'm looking for!

I see y'all offer the 450 as a sort of "kit" with the adapter. What's the noise like on the 450? Will I hear it in a typical daily driver car?

I have the 450 and i can't hear it. Only time i do is when it's priming from sitting. And that is even faint.

I've never noticed any excessive noise from a Walbro 450. The old school 044 and other pumps were significantly louder. You shouldn't be able to hear it over even one of the quieter catbacks.

Bracket looks good. Curious about the wiring. In the pics on your website, I see butt connectors and heatshrink. Was hoping for plug and play. What does your install/relay kit include, how do you account for heavier wires from the pump to the bulkhead connector? Assuming you will have to de-pin the connector to put thicker wire in, or that is not included? Maybe I'm missing or misreading something.

Unfortunately that solution does not address the issue with the 450 & 525 pumps having a 3/8" outlet and a the pickup tube being 5/16", forcing the 5/16" hose on the pump will only cause a premature hose failure. We have been working on a full solution with a similar style mount, but utilizing a fuel pump outlet adapter to mate to a -6an fitting. This eliminates the need for a hose completely. Also have an option for a -6an to 5/16" hose barb in the case of a hanger that has been previously cut. The Walbro 400 has a 5/16" outlet so it is not an issue.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...b926b71a3e.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...cb984e25dc.jpg

Due to the stock connector not being readily available, the kit is designed to have the stock connector reused. I do have larger pins I can send you.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...97d2c712c2.jpg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...64d2b63466.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...f094686684.jpg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...587209c43d.png
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...99da16de04.png
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...8076c43d1a.jpg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...b823be9f3c.jpg
We use the Walbro installation kit intended for the Walbro 450 and the included in-tank hose. Not sure what the issue here is as I have never had a failure with it. Looks like a radium piece you have there.

Hose that comes with the 450/525 install kit is pictured on the left. Radium makes nice stuff, been installing it for a while now, decided to incorporate it into our design, no reason to reinvent the wheel.

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...31eadbd6e5.jpg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...37e062b952.jpg

I wonder if you are using a different install kit that us as the hose we have is completely different. It is a snug fit on the pump but goes on. I get them direct from TI automotive so I have no doubt on the authenticity. Either way, there is more than one way to do things and each of us can do it how we feel works best.