For those w/ Anti-detonation device
 

My engine has the KDR "anti-detonation device". For anyone who doesn't know, they are just little plugs that screw in between the trailing plugs and the rotor housing that do not allow the spark to reach the combustion chamber. My question is, how the hell do I get these things out? They were already installed when I bought the engine. They do not seem to have any way of backing them out (small allen key, or socket). They were installed somehow, so there has to be a way of getting them out. I have an idea of how to remove them, but I would have to damage them were I could not reuse them. Purpose being, I would like to do before and after dyno pulls to see if there is any power loss due to less spark. Any info would be helpful, thanks

Do they screw in? I think you are just going to have to look at them and figure it out -- you know the spark plug holes have threads, so it seems extremely likely that they screw in, though perhaps there is some additional complication to seal against the pinhole at the end of the spark plug hole.

If they are carefully installed so as not to protrude into the rotor housing (which would instantly snag and destroy all your apex seals), be careful not to screw that positioning up.

-Max

Did you try calling KD?

Anthony

I don't know how to get the out, but if you do PLEASE post before and after dyno numbers. So far nobody has :rolleyes: .

Give kdr a call, they can tell you how to get them out. also, you may want to go with their machined bolts that they now use. Much better then sparkplug tips. Also interested.

I think that they screw in also, has to be. If you look at them, there is a little ring molded into the center of them. This ring goes right inside the spark plug, surrounding the center electrode and blocking it from the ground side electrodes. I've tried a small allen key inside of the ring and a small socket outside of this little ring, but have had no success.

I little while back, the car was at the shop and they tried calling KDR about getting these things out. They said that KDR did not return any of their phone calls. So I haven't tried contacting them myself, I'll have to drop them an email. Thanks for the replys

Sounds like they must have a special tool for removing it. I have a feeling they may have used to sealer on the threads too. would suck if it were locktite :eek: ...But they should be able to tell you what you need to know.

I also would like to see some dyno numbers too...Alwasy heard you don't need to run your training plugs. interesting.

ttt

from what i've read you're only losing 1-2hp max and from the dyno sheets I've seen, there wasn't a difference.

I am currently running anti-dets as well.
Except mine are capped plugs screwed into the trailings, seems alot easier than what is on your car.

I want to dyno the difference also.

I tried installing trailings last week and the car awfull. I need to adjust my microtech to run the trailings but I have not figurted out what to change yet.

I heard you are losing up to 10% rwhp by not running the trailings. I have no proof just what I have heard. That is one of the main reasons I am trying to get my car to run on all four plugs to see what the real difference is.

One thing is certain, fuel milage is the shitts without trailings. Or maybe its just my driving. :)

I've always been very interested in these things. Does anyone sell them anymore?

Black93RX-7, where did you get your "caps"?

The original clams were to good to be true.

i am sure KDR has dyno results of before and after. As someone pointed out there was over a year of RD on these things. Anyways....why not just ask them if u care?

KDR might have thought that the shop was going to reverse-engineer their product.

Thanks for all the replys.

I currently get 16 mpg (average from about 50/50 highway and city driving). It does seem true that you do not need to run trailing except for gas mileage and maybe some HP (which is what I want to find out!). The last time on the dyno that car put out about 325 RWHP. This was on 99 spec twins (13 psi), street port and of course all the other breathing neccessities. When I first got the car I was very surprised to find a base stock map on the PFC. I have since then put in a base mod map (with as much tweeking as I could do without a dyno) and the car runs much smoother and slightly more powerful. But this seems to disprove the rumor which says that you need special tuning in order to run the "anti-detonation" mod.

c00lduke: The engine builder installed them when he did my motor. It's RX-7 specialties in Calgary, guys name is Adam.

My problem is since my microtec has never run with trailings it is not programmed to use them.

I know how to tune A/F in matrix mode but thats about it. Does anyone know what needs to be adjusted to run trailings on a microtech?

As soon as I figure it out, I will dyno the car and find out the difference in hp.

Thanks

KDR may have designed them so there's no way to remove them :D

Possible Removal Solution...
 

If I understand correctly, how these are installed, I have a possible solution:

Get some red Loctite (#271) and coat the spark-plug threads with it. Screw the spark- plugs back in to the blanking pieces. Let the Loctite harden over night. Screw the plugs out with the blanking pieces attached.

If you then want to save the pieces, heat them up with a propane torch to ~300F to soften the Loctite, and screw them off the plugs.

As an update to this thread, I just took apart a KD motor with these installed. First, here's how they're installed. They simply insert themselves onto the end of the plug, and you screw the plug in normally...this pushes the insert all the way to the end and seats it. They are not threaded, loctited, or pressed into place. However, they probably won't come back out on their own even if the plug is removed.

I had the luxury of seeing them from inside the rotorhousing, and I just pushed them out with a small punch. If I had a running engine in a car that i wanted to remove them from, I'd pull my EGI fuse, remove one trailing plug, have someone crank the engine with the throttle open, while I stood there with my hand by the plughole ready to catch the plug as it got pushed out by compression pulses. Then repeat for the rear. It's the only way I could think of to remove them with the engien in the car, since they are aluminum and obviously not magnetic.

Otherwise, perhaps a bit of hylomar, bubblegum, or whatever other sticky substance you have on hand, placed on the end of the sparkplug, might be enough to adhere to them and pull them out with the plug upon removal.

I'll be posting another thread all to itself with pics and findings about this setup here shortly.