Rubbing/grinding noise found! How do I fix it?
 

I finally found the rubbing/grinding noise that's bugged me since I bought this car:

http://www.muller.net/sonny/tmp/rub1.jpg

As you can (or maybe can't) see, the right side of the shifter "box" has been rubbing against the body. The whole shifter assembly itself looks cocked to the right. This is consistent with me experiencing the rub only on right turns.

It looks like the powerplant frame and motor mounts basically "determine" the location of shifter. I've already replaced the powerplant frame, so I know it's good.

Is it safe to assume that I have a bad engine mount? I've looked at them up close and I really can't see much.

http://www.muller.net/sonny/tmp/rub2.jpg
http://www.muller.net/sonny/tmp/rub3.jpg

Sorry for the bads pics...really hard to control the camera under the car. They look ok, but they almost look as if they need to come out in order to be inspected.

Thanks,
Sonny

that is quite odd. has the car ever been hit?

on another note, cover all that extra space with some heat shielding material when you put it all back together. helps keep the heat out of the cabin. some dynamat will also help to quiet the noise instrusions.

As far as I know, the car has never been hit. I've only had it for about a month. Carfax was clean and a buddy of mine that works at a body shop looked it over and said that he couldn't find any evidence of prior accident damage.

I'll take the mounts out and check them. I hope I find something wrong because I'm not sure what else it could be. :scratch:

Sonny

do you have a torque brace on the car?

Nope, no torque brace.

Sonny

When I replaced my oil pan gasket, I started getting a rub in right turns afterwards. I was thinking it was something to do with exhaust, but this gives me an idea of something else to check.

You might try lossening up the subframe and motor mount bolts and pushing the whole thing over to the driver's side. There's a good bit of slop in there. Your mounts may be fine, it could just be the way they were most recently assembled. Doing this could change your alignment settings though.

The car has a Mazda reman in it that was installed about 10k miles ago. I have a hard time believing that someone would install an engine with bad mounts!

Good idea though, Alex. I'll check the mounts. If they're ok, I'll try realigning everything. With a bad mount, I expected to see the tranny sagging down in one direction. It's not sagging...it's just not centered.

Thanks for the feedback, guys. If you have any more ideas, lemme have 'em! :beerchug:

Sonny

It's not the motor mounts that determine the location of your shifter...it's the way your transmission is mounted. I just got done putting together my car and it looks like yours is torqued over to the right for some reason. The tranny's naturally want to turn over in that direction under load but mine definitely wasn't that far over when I took everything apart. When you lifted the car to look at the PPF did everything look fine under the tranny?

Ok, here's a better pic:
http://www.muller.net/sonny/tmp/rub4.jpg

Assuming that the mounts are ok, what do I need to loosen on the front subframe so that I can move things around a little bit?

I'll unhook the powerplant frame from the tranny.

The shop manual seems vague on this point (front subframe).

Thanks,
Sonny

you cannot tell shit from looking at them. get youself a big ass bar and give them a pry to see if they seperate

Just to add to the confusion... Motor mounts will typically not "sag" as you are expecting when they go bad. Most often, the rubber part separates from the metal tang that is bolted to the engine block. With the engine resting on the mounts, you will not see this separation. However, if you have someone grab the UIM from above and rock the engine hard, you should see if the rubber lifts accordingly, or if the tang and the rubber act independently, indicating separation.

That's funny...I just changed my motor mounts and the passenger side one was obviously shorter than the driver side. Meaning it looked like the rubber had collapsed. I tryed to seperate it from the metal, but it wouldn't come off...but it did move side to side as I put pressure from top. The driver side did not. I think it was the extreme heat from the turbos that messed it up.

OK this is the problem. The engine mounts and the PPF nuts/bolts need to be loosened. There is a page in the shop manual that gives measurements as to how your drivetrain should be lined up. Whoever replaced your engine did not line everything back up right and that is what is casuing your shifter to rub.

i've got solid motor mounts and my shifter has always set over like that. has ever since i bought the car when it had the original mounts. it's had a motor swap and the tranny has been changed 3 times. i don't think it's anything wrong

There are 6 bolts that hold the subframe on, three on each side. They bolt the subframe to the frame rails of the body. You should also loosen the two bolts that bolt the motor mounts to the subframe (one bolt per mount). Lossening these is what started my car's rubbing problem, so hopefully it can fix yours. Don't loosen the three bolts per mount that bolt the mount to the engine, through the oil pan.

If I remove one of the 3 bolts that holds the motor mount through the pan, will oil come out? I'm trying to figure out if I need to drain the oil to remove the mounts. I just changed the oil, but oh well...dino oil is cheap. :p:

Thanks,
Sonny

could this be a bad auto to man swap maybe??

I don't think it's a bad swap. It's an R1 and those didn't come in automatics.

Sonny

Thats weird, my car has the EXACT same problem. However, my motor is original. It seems like Rated R-1 is right. I bet mine wasnt lined up properly when the previous owner changed my clutch.

Mine isnt quite that bad though, if I make hard rright turns while accelerating my tranny rubs then,

I had the same problem...except hard left turns. Just recently changed my motor mounts with urethanes and it's perfect.

Where did you get your urethanes???

The mounts are good.

http://www.muller.net/sonny/rx7/mounts/mounts2.jpg
http://www.muller.net/sonny/rx7/mounts/mounts3.jpg
http://www.muller.net/sonny/rx7/mounts/mounts4.jpg

Looks like what I need to do is:

1) Loosen the PPF from the tranny
2) Loosen the motor mounts
3) (Possibly) loosen the front subframe
4) Line everything up and then tighten it all down.

I suspect that when this reman was installed awhile back, nothing was aligned. :scratch:

Sonny

Sonny: Nice work on the troubleshooting. Hope you get it all sorted out and let us know of your progress. :)

Sonny- make sure the motor mount holes oin the subframe are not elongated. If so the engine will cock slightly to the right.
John

John: Will do.

I forgot to add that on both mounts, one of the motor mount bolts (the long one) was only finger tight. I'm surprised there was no oil leak there.

Looks like RatedR1 nailed it. I found the section in the shop manual that discusses aligning the ppf. Looks like I'll need to loosen everything, align it all, and tighten it all back down.

Thanks, guys.

Sonny

Gotham

I reinstalled my mounts tonight. Man, what a bitch! Is it supposed to be that hard? :scratch: I fully tightened the 3 bolts holding the passenger side mount to the engine. I lowered the engine enough to get the the mount's through the subframe and then I put the nut on about 2 turns only.

I jacked it back up and to get the driver's side to go in, I ended up bolting it to the subframe first. Then I lowered the engine down and got the bolts into the engine.

I don't know how you're supposed to get a torque wrench in there. Real f'in tight will have to do for now. ;)

Sonny

http://www.muller.net/sonny/tmp/rub5.jpg

The angle of the camera isn't the same, but so far, I've gained a lot of up-down clearance. I think the shifter is rubbing because it is off to the right some but also because it is sitting too high.

I oxy torched my motor mount bolts to get all of the old sealer off. The wire wheel wasn't doing anything for me.
http://www.muller.net/sonny/tmp/rub6.jpg

At this point, I'm not sure if I should loosen the subframe or not. It looks like I still need more clearance on the right side, no?

Thanks,
Sonny

I ended up yanking the mounts back off tonight to reapply the sealant. This time, in addition to putting a little more on the bolts, I also put it on the mounts' mating surfaces. They were previously installed this way and I wanted to preserve the fact that the engine did not leak oil.

http://www.muller.net/sonny/tmp/mounts5.jpg

This is how my clearance looks now. It may change some after I reattach the PPF, but it looks a lot better than before. I was able to move the tranny a little by wedging a 2x4 between it and the tunnel while the mounts were loose.

http://www.muller.net/sonny/tmp/rub5.jpg
http://www.muller.net/sonny/tmp/rub6.jpg

Sonny

Have you driven it since? Has this worked?

Nice pics.

I can't believe no one mentioned that is not the stock shifter housing, it looks a little thicker than stock. Other than that like you've already figured out there is a lot of adjustment with the stock PPF and motor mounts.

I haven't finished putting this thing back together yet, so I don't know if this did the trick. I'm pretty sure that it will help.

While I'm under the car, I think I'm gonna remove the DP and extend it. It's a little too short (older Bonez DP) and I'm itching to lay down some TIG beads. :)

I've had this car for 28 days. I've driven it for 4 days and it's been on jackstands for 24 days. Ah, the joys of FD3 ownership. It's all good though...I'd have gone over any car completely regardless of where it came from.

Jeff: I ordered a stock shifter assembly. I've never been a huge fan of short shift kits, so if worse comes worse, this one will come out. As you said, the short shifter kit adds a lot of bulk and reduces clearance.

Sonny

FIXED!!!

Yeah baby!!! :beerchug: :beerchug:

There's nothing like chasing a problem and then finally finding it and fixing it!

Sonny

Awesome Sonny.

Where in NCal are you? I'd pay you to teach me MIG basics :).

clayne: I don't have a MIG welder any more. There are definitely times (exhaust stuff) when I miss it. I primarily use my TIG welder for most stuff (manifolds and collectors). I also have a gas welder (oxyacetylene torch) that I use for stuff that requires me to lay down or stand up. It's also wonderful for heating up rusty old bolts. I'm in the Brentwood/Antioch area.

Sonny

Do you have an address so I can send you my bill? :p:

Glad you got it sorted out.

Sorry to resurrect this from the dead, but was just replacing my shifter with a B&M short shifter from Banzai and had this same issue. Transmission turret was extremely off-center (pic attached). For anyone reading now, the steps for the powerplant frame (PPF) alignment are on J95 in the FSM but the steps are:

1. Loosen the 6 subframe bolts and retighten from the driver side to the passenger side. Idk how much this helped, but my thought process it would pull the subframe slightly to the driver's side.

2. Loosen the 2 motor mount bolts and 6 PPF bolts (2 on the tranny, 4 on the diff). Once again, I'm not sure if the loosening them on the diff matters too much, since once I loosened the motor mount bolts and two PPF bolts on the tranny, I could move the transmission and engine pretty easily. But I loosened them all just to be safe.

3. Get a long 2x4 and shove it between the transmission and transmission tunnel on the passenger side and push the transmission towards the driver's side until you have the transmission turret in the position you want. I was by myself so I just guessed.

4. MOST IMPORTANT, while you still have the transmission in the place you want, tighten the bolts in the following order: Drivers Side Motor Mount -> Passenger Side Motor Mount -> Front Most Transmission PPF bolt -> Second Transmission PPF Bolt. This will make sure the drivetrain can't move back towards the passenger side Even if you accidentally let some pressure off while your tightening everything. I kept my hip on the 2x4 to keep anything from moving an used an air ratchet to snug things up in that order. Went back and torqued everything afterwards.

5. You can release the pressure on the 2x4 now and tighten the PPF bolts on the diff.

6. Transmission turret should now be centered! I went from the pic below to dead center so there is A LOT of play in the alignment. Stay safe everyone!

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...7c34f8f95.jpeg